Old ideas, time travel, & Ginny's Oomph: new (!) thoughts on H/H?

[Tabouli]

No: HPFGUIDX 32818

Mahoney:
> In fact, in the hands of a talented writer, the 
most hackneyed idea can become (to hyperbolize) ground-breaking 
literature.<

I totally agree.  I think there's nothing wrong with re-doing something that's been done before... So Long As You Do It BETTER! (or at least in a new, fresh way which invigorates the idea so much that people would never think of accusing you of plagiarism)

>I don't like time travel stories, generally.<

Oh, I do, I love 'em, and I don't really care whether the author's produced a watertight loophole-free paradox-slaying storyline either, so long as it's done convincingly to me.  Give me a bit of the ol' 'Sliding Doors', 'Run Lola Run' and 'Back to the Future' any day (OK, so they're all films, but anyway).

Charis Julia:
> Why would you think Ginny doesn't have enough "oomph"? Do you 
think perhaps you're undermining her a bit? After all she was sorted 
into Gryffindor. Of course she's shy and unsure of her self, sure, 
but after all she's only 10-14. And she has matured a great deal 
during the course of the books<

I think she undermines herself where Harry's concerned.  Certainly at the start of the series she seems to have a serious case of "baby of the family and only girl".  A very young 10, IMO, probably from being home schooled and having all those big brothers being alternately overprotective and teasing, plus a mother who wants to keep her little girl little and does things like keeping her away from scary sections of the pyramids in PoA (I mean: she's 12.  Think of the things her ickle Ronniekins saw at the age of 12 and coped with!).  Now, to pre-empt accusations of me "hating Ginny" let me say that I like the girl well enough.  It's not her fault she's been so sheltered.  She's sweet and kind and loyal, she can keep secrets, and yes, she *has* grown up quite a bit, but I think she has a lot more growing up to do to win Harry's respect, let alone be strong enough to be his rock if he and his world falls apart.

On the other hand, it's pretty clear that he already respects and trusts Hermione, and has already leant on her for support and emergency assistance in times of crisis.  At 11 Hermione is already strong, smart and assertive, even if she's socially insecure and her self-esteem hinges on her academic achievements (though I'm sure there are many rabid H/Hers out there who could put this argument far more strongly than a vague theorist like myself).  And I don't think being Harry's "rock" in any way means she would be a stand by her man sidekick who can't achieve things in her own right.  People can play a supporting role in their partner's, children's or family members' lives without sinking their own lives for the other party's sake, and we know Hermione can definitely cope with a *lot* on her plate.

Back to Ginny.  I covered this a few months ago, but to reiterate, why does Ginny develop a crush on Harry?  For the same reason little girls develop crushes on Prince William and other boys they know nothing about... because he's Famous!  She's a groupie!  Given that Harry doesn't like playing the celebrity and feels very uncomfortable when people stare at his scar or try to pull him unwillingly into the limelight like Lockhart, he's hardly likely to warm to someone who fancies him primarily because he's famous.  In GoF, he even specifically recognises that girls only want to go to the Ball with him because he's a Triwizard Champion, and doesn't like the idea (though could probably cope if it were Cho!).

OK, so she gets to meet Harry properly at the start of CoS, and presumably learns he's nice as well as famous, but she's far too bashful to actually have a conversation with him (not a good start to a prospective relationship: power imbalance, for a start).  She's hopelessly shy and embarrassed around him and also causes him a lot of embarrassment, albeit unintentionally, by hovering around Hagrid's hut (reminiscent of groupies hanging around backstage to meet their idols), sending him an annoying singing get well card, and humiliating him in public with that Valentine's Day card (though there's some debate about whether this was actually her).  All very loyal and devoted, like her stand against Draco on his behalf, but hardly the way to get Harry to respect her and take her seriously, especially not at his age (embarrassing a teenage boy, especially one like Harry, not being a good recipe for making him fancy you).

Then we have the Yule Ball business.  A while ago some people were arguing that Ginny dealt with her lost opportunity to go to the Ball with Harry in a very mature way, because she didn't burst theatrically into tears and try to guilt trip him.  OK, so an improvement on elbow in the butter... her emotional control (aka Stiff Upper Lip) is certainly coming along nicely.  All the same, I think this is an English thing... the last thing an embarrassment prone English family like the Weasleys would produce is a daughter who would sob in public and try to blackmail someone into liking her if she could possibly help it.  More likely she would force a brave smile to hold in the tears, make some excuse, and then flee to a bathroom so no-one saw her being emotional!  She *has* grown up, but I don't see her reaction as evidence of incredible new depths of strength and maturity myself.  (Now, on the other hand, actually asking Harry to the Ball herself would have impressed me).

And yes, she does seem to have become close to Hermione behind the scenes in GoF, though I don't think this bears much on the debate.  I get the impression that Hermione, with her two best friends being boys, must sometimes crave a female friend to talk to about the girlier things they would scoff at (like what to wear to the Ball and who to take, relationships, Love Potions with Mrs Weasley...!), and has bonded with Ginny in that department.  We don't know much about this friendship, though it would be interesting to hear more!

In fact, now I think about it, I think I may have hit on a new and previously unexplored dimension of the shipping debates!   Will wonders never cease?? (though of course I may be hit within minutes by a post from an older timer than I who will point out that the list has, in fact, devoted several weeks to this speculation which may be found in the archives, the Lexicon and several thousand fanfics).  Surely if Ginny and Hermione have become friends on a girly-bonding level, an absolutely mandatory topic of conversation is Which Boy They Like!!  Given that Harry is one of Hermione's best friends, how could Ginny *not* have talked to Hermione about her undying love for Harry, is there any hope, how can I get him to notice me as more than Ron's baby sister, you know him so well, what sort of girls does he like, does he ever mention me, etc.?  Now, it's obvious that Hermione has at least told Ginny that Krum has a thing for her and invited her to the Ball.  Might she also have shared the one piece of information all warring shippers would dearly like to know... which boy of Ron and Harry she is most attracted to?  AHAAA!!

Now the plot thickens.  Does Ginny know that Ron is interested in Hermione?  If she does (as well she might if she's kept her eyes and ears open), mightn't she have asked Hermione whether she has any interest in her brother?  No doubt she'd keep the answer to herself if so, but all the same, the thought is intriguing.  If Hermione does fancy Ron, Ginny, a trustworthy and good-hearted girl, would surely be able to provide some discreet help in getting the two together.  OTOH, the plot is even *thicker* if Hermione fancies Harry!!  Hoo hoo hoo.  Knowing of Ginny's infatuation, what would Hermione do?  I think her best bet in this case would be not to tell her, focus on the Krum situation and remain neutral and non-committal about Ron and Harry, "No, we're all just friends", rather than wrack poor Ginny with anguish and jealousy by telling her that she wants Harry too (and gets to see him every day, etc.etc.).  All the same, if things were to develop between Hermione and Harry, this could put serious stress on Hermione's friendship with Ginny... Ginny might well feel hurt and betrayed to find that her confidante about Harry had run off with Harry herself!

Hmmm. Of course, it's also quite likely that Hermione, being inexperienced and naive in the relationship department, hasn't figured out her own feelings with regard to Krum, Ron and Harry at this stage.  The idea of boys finding her attractive is novel at this point, and it may take a while for her to sort out feeling flattered, feeling friendship and feeling attractive into clear enough categories to develop a definite interest of her own.

Tabouli (who truly isn't judging Ginny's groupiedom that harshly: she's groupied herself on several embarrassing occasions)


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