Time scales at the end of PoA (LONG)

[cindysphynx]

No: HPFGUIDX 32835

Hollydaze wrote:

> I have just spent 2 1/2 hours working this out so please be gentle 
>when you point out all the holes that are in it!

I certainly believe it took 2.5 hours, as this stuff is really 
complicated.  :-)  I didn't do a comprehensive analysis, but that 
won't stop me from arguing about this anyway.  

Let me state up front that my goal isn't to cram the events into the 
timeline, because I don't think that can be done consistent with the 
descriptions in canon.  Frankly, my preliminary view is that JKR must 
not have prepared a detailed timeline when she wrote this because 
certain things just don't add up.  In other words, if you accept what 
JKR literally tells us, it can't be squared with the events very 
easily.  My thoughts are:

1.  I'm not ready to concede the point that JKR's two references to 
the time to reach Honeydukes and the Shrieking Shack are way off.  
Yes, "felt like an hour" is not the same as "exactly an hour."  But 
unless we stray far from canon and rely instead on our own 
experiences with time in our daily lives, it is hard to shrink "felt 
like an hour" to 15 minutes or so.

2.  The trip to Hogsmeade was long and arduous.  The tunnel to 
Hogsmeade has many "twists and turns," and Harry "hurried along it."  
The passage starts to rise after what "felt like an hour", and by 
this time, JKR tells us that Harry is "panting, his face hot, his 
feet very cold."  PoA 195.  Then "10 minutes later" Harry came to the 
foot of some worn stone steps" and starts to climb out.  So we know 
that Harry is worn out *before* he gets to the last 10-minute segment 
of the trip.  Granted, we could try to say that the Honeydukes tunnel 
twists and winds and the Shrieking Shack tunnel is straight, so the 
Shrieking Shack tunnel must be a lot shorter.  But Harry tells us the 
opposite:  "On and on went the passage; it felt at least as long as 
the one to Honeydukes."  So I don't see how the total Shrieking Shack 
journey gets to be substantially shorter than an hour -- unless you 
depart from canon.  

3.  I don't think we can draw any meaningful conclusions from the 
comparison of Malfoy's return journey to Hogwarts compared to 
Harry's.  We have no idea how long it took Malfoy to find Snape and 
for Snape to reach the corridor where Harry emerged.  JKR gives us no 
references to time in that sequence, so it just isn't very helpful.

3.  In the time-turner sequence, once everyone has gone into the 
tunnel headed toward the Shrieking Shack, Hermione and Harry sit and 
wait for them to come back out.  JKR tells us how long this 
takes:  "And then, at last, after over an hour . . . "  PoA 408.  If 
the Shrieking Shack trip is 40 minutes each way (averaging a fast 
trip on the way there and a slow trip on the way back), and the 
Shrieking Shack takes 15 minutes, that is 95 minutes, consistent with 
JKR's description in canon.

OK, on to specifics in Holldaze's timeline:

> 10:55 Everyone leaves the WW. (They have been in the willow for 
>about 60 - 65 minutes - there is no way AT ALL that it can logically 
>take 1 hour to get along the track)

I'm having trouble understanding the basis for the statement that it 
can't be a long journey to and from the Shrieking Shack, so let me 
just ask the question:  Hollydaze, what is the total time from the 
moment Harry and Hermione enter the Whomping Willow to the time the 
entire group leaves the Whomping Willow with Pettigrew in tow?

I'm also unclear on how long you think they were in the Shrieking 
Shack (not considering travel time).  Are you saying it is 60-65 
minutes of chit chat in the Shack, because that seems much too long.  
I doubt that it takes that long to read the entire Shrieking Shack 
scene out loud.  

My preliminary guess is something like 80 minutes total travel time 
plus 15 minutes of confrontation time in the Shrieking Shack, for a 
total of 95 minutes.  

Anyway, if we know for certain that Snape appears bearing Ron on a 
stretcher at 11:10, it makes sense that everything that happens 
before Lupin transforms occurs before 11:05.  That means we have 2:10 
for the Hagrid visit and Whomping Willow/Shrieking Shack/tunnel 
journey stuff.  That's a very tight timeline, indeed.

Bottom line:  I think the only place we really differ is in figuring 
out how much time is spent in tunnel travel and how much is in the 
Shrieking Shack confrontation.  

That said, I know what you're all thinking:  who cares, and what 
difference does it make?  No one, and none, really.  But it is 
interesting to try to figure out whether this is a big Flint, or 
whether JKR just cut it very close.

Cindy