Ginny's Oomph & New (!) Thoughts on H/H (SHIP)

[Penny & Bryce]

No: HPFGUIDX 32836

Hi --

Anything with "New thoughts on H/H" in the subject is sure to get my 
attention.  <g>

Tabouli wrote:


> Charis Julia:
>  > Why would you think Ginny doesn't have enough "oomph"? Do you
> think perhaps you're undermining her a bit? After all she was sorted
> into Gryffindor. Of course she's shy and unsure of her self, sure,
> but after all she's only 10-14. And she has matured a great deal
> during the course of the books<

Tabouli responded:

> 
> I think she undermines herself where Harry's concerned.  Certainly at 
> the start of the series she seems to have a serious case of "baby of the 
> family and only girl".  A very young 10, IMO, probably from being home 
> schooled and having all those big brothers being alternately 
> overprotective and teasing, plus a mother who wants to keep her little 
> girl little and does things like keeping her away from scary sections of 
> the pyramids in PoA (I mean: she's 12.  Think of the things her ickle 
> Ronniekins saw at the age of 12 and coped with!).

Indeed.  I wrote a long discourse on the Molly-Ginny mother-daughter 
relationship in Message 21306.  In summary, I agree with Carole that 
Molly is likely smothering Ginny & the most likely response is going to 
be rebellion at some point.  However, there are some strange 
inconsistencies in the way that Ginny is depicted in canon, which leads 
me to conclude that maybe she isn't ever going to rebel.  I'm utterly 
convinced that JKR must not have intended her to be 9/10 when she wrote 
PS/SS; no one could possibly think that Ginny's actions in the book are 
typical of girls that age.  If she doesn't ever rebel against Molly 
though, I don't see how she'll ever have the strength & the spirit to be 
Harry's rock as Tabouli says.  Take a look at message 21306 -- Ginny is 
depicted as far, far younger than her actual age (and far younger than 
just one year shy of Ron) IMHO.

 

> On the other hand, it's pretty clear that he already respects and trusts 
> Hermione, and has already leant on her for support and emergency 
> assistance in times of crisis.  At 11 Hermione is already strong, smart 
> and assertive, even if she's socially insecure and her self-esteem 
> hinges on her academic achievements (though I'm sure there are many 
> rabid H/Hers out there who could put this argument far more strongly 
> than a vague theorist like myself).

Nope -- couldn't have said it better myself, Tabouli.  <g>

  And I don't think being Harry's 
> "rock" in any way means she would be a stand by her man sidekick who 
> can't achieve things in her own right.  People can play a supporting 
> role in their partner's, children's or family members' lives without 
> sinking their own lives for the other party's sake, and we know Hermione 
> can definitely cope with a *lot* on her plate.

Again, absolutely agreed.

> 
> Back to Ginny.  I covered this a few months ago, but to reiterate, why 
> does Ginny develop a crush on Harry?  For the same reason little girls 
> develop crushes on Prince William and other boys they know nothing 
> about... because he's Famous!  She's a groupie!  Given that Harry 
> doesn't like playing the celebrity and feels very uncomfortable when 
> people stare at his scar or try to pull him unwillingly into the 
> limelight like Lockhart, he's hardly likely to warm to someone who 
> fancies him primarily because he's famous.

He also barely interacts with Ginny.  He is kind to Ginny.  He's 
certainly not mean to her in hopes of dashing her romantic interest, 
which many boys that age would do.  But, he & the Trio actively exclude 
her from their interactions (in at least 2 instances in GoF it's very 
clear that they don't want her around).


> Then we have the Yule Ball business.  <snip> She *has* 
> grown up, but I don't see her reaction as evidence of incredible new 
> depths of strength and maturity myself.  (Now, on the other hand, 
> actually asking Harry to the Ball herself would have impr essed me).

Not only that, but as I mentioned in #21306, *where* is Ginny in the 
aftermath of the 3rd Task?  If she was watching the Task with her family 
& Hermione, did Molly scivvy her off to Gryffindor Tower?  If so, why 
didn't she stand her ground?  She's presumably 14 or close to it by that 
point; she's old enough to take a stand.  Does this cast some doubt on 
whether or not she's still got a crush on Harry?  We don't see Ginny *at 
all* after her appearance at the Yule Ball with Neville (which is 
briefly noticed by Harry).  So ... *where* is she when her supposed love 
interest is possibly dead or severely injured and/or has undergone what 
she must know was a harrowing experience (even if she doesn't know the 
details)?  The only scenario I've been able to envision whereby Ginny 
*wanted* to go with her mum & the others to see about Harry & doesn't 
involve a confrontation with her mum is this: if she watched the final 
task with friends, saw all the hoopla at the end & tried to reach her 
family & Hermione to go with them but was intercepted by another teacher 
(McGonagall?) who herded her & other students back to the dorms.  I 
don't think this scenario is necessarily a testament to her strength of 
character or growing maturity necessarily either, but it's the most 
plausible explanation that I could come up with that doesn't involve her 
still being a young immature kid with a case of groupiness.

> In fact, now I think about it, I think I may have hit on a new and 
> previously unexplored dimension of the shipping debates!   Will wonders 
> never cease??  Surely if 
> Ginny and Hermione have become friends on a girly-bonding level, an 
> absolutely mandatory topic of conversation is Which Boy They Like!! 

Too true.  AFAIK, no one has ever touched on this before Tabouli so 
kudos to you!  <g>

 
> Now the plot thickens.  Does Ginny know that Ron is interested in 
> Hermione?  If she does (as well she might if she's kept her eyes and 
> ears open), mightn't she have asked Hermione whether she has any 
> interest in her brother?  No doubt she'd keep the answer to herself if 
> so, but all the same, the thought is intriguing.  If Hermione does fancy 
> Ron, Ginny, a trustworthy and good-hearted girl, would surely be able to 
> provide some discreet help in getting the two together.

You would think so, wouldn't you?  Of course, as someone mentioned, it 
wouldn't be surprising if Hermione were a bit confused about her 
romantic feelings for any of the 3 boys we're discussing (Harry, Ron & 
Krum).  She might have some level of interest in all 3 of them for all 
we know.  But .. moving on ...

  OTOH, the plot 
> is even *thicker* if Hermione fancies Harry!!  Hoo hoo hoo.  Knowing of 
> Ginny's infatuation, what would Hermione do?  I think her best bet in 
> this case would be not to tell her, focus on the Krum situation and 
> remain neutral and non-committal about Ron and Harry, "No, we're all 
> just friends", rather than wrack poor Ginny with anguish and jealousy by 
> telling her that she wants Harry too (and gets to see him every day, 
> etc.etc.).

Yeah, I can't see Hermione owning up to feelings for Harry.  She 
wouldn't want to admit it to Ginny since Ginny so clearly does have 
feelings for Harry & would feel disadvantaged (and perhaps alot less 
likely to be friends with Hermione if she felt she was competing in the 
romance field with her.  As Tabouli said so well, Hermione might well 
need this female companionship that she hasn't been able to achieve with 
Parvarti, Lavender or seemingly any other girl at Hogwarts that we're 
aware of).  She wouldn't want to jeopardize her seemingly only female 
friendship .... I can see that.  That's one more reason that Hermione's 
feelings are so ambiguous & open to more than one spin.  If she's 
concerned about losing another female friend (maybe her *only* female 
friend) AND both her other best friends (Harry & Ron), she'd for sure 
keep her own counsel.

See ... the plot does indeed thicken (potentially anyway).

Penny