The Female Students (and other female charcters)

[judyserenity]

No: HPFGUIDX 33225

I said:
> > The treatment of women in the Potterverse smacks of tokenism.  
> > Sure, they can be on the faculty, but they prune flowers (Sprout) 
> > or fix sniffles (Pomfrey, who is called a nurse and not a doctor) 
> > or fuss about smudges on library books (Madam Pince) while the 
> > males save the universe.  


and "cindysphynx" replied:
> Hmmm.  While I would welcome more and better female characters, I 
> think we do have to acknowledge JKR's limited successes in 
> incorporating women into the books so far.  The list of successes is 
> a short list, but it is a list nonetheless:
> 1.  Rita Skeeter....
> 2.  Mrs. Lestrange... 
> 3.  Madam Maxime...  
> 4.  Winky... 
> 5.  Trelawney...
> ...I also think we have to be careful about denigrating what the 
> female 
> teachers do.  If we complain that Sprout "prunes flowers," we have 
> to make the same complaint that Snape "just cooks."  Also, I don't 
> recall anyone having sniffles fixed by Madam Pomfrey.  Instead, I 
> recall her re-growing bones that a male teacher had accidently 
> removed, in addition to fixing all manner of signficant injuries.
>.... I think it overstates the case a bit to say that "all" of the 
> female 
> teachers fit the fussy, uptight stereootype.  I don't see Trelawney 
> as fussy and uptight.  I also don't see Hooch or McGonagall as fussy 
> or uptight -- McGonagall is strict (as she should be), but she bent 
> the rules to get Harry a broomstick in PS/SS.  If McGonagall's 
> strictness makes her uptight, then I'd say Snape is equally uptight 
> because he is especially strict with Harry....


Cindy, you are right about Rita Skeeter; I overlooked her.  She is a 
fairly major female character.  Not a pleasant one, to be sure, but 
then many of the males aren't pleasant, either.

Winky I don't count because she isn't human.  The house-elves act so 
differently from real people that I have a hard time seeing them as 
examples of human females *or* human males.

Mrs. Lestrange seems very interesting.  But, she has been in exactly 
one scene so far. We don't even know her own name (given or maiden.)  
And, her presence at the trial is balanced by the apparent lack of 
females in the Death Eater circle summoned by Voldy. 

Madam Maxine is also an interesting character, although we've seen 
only a modest amount of her so far.  

Trelawney does have a decent amount of lines, although she is is quite 
frivalous.  I do see her as fussy and neurotic, always expecting 
people to die, afraid to sit at a table with 12 people, etc.  I see 
McGonagall as fussy, too.  McGonagall is the stereotypical prim and 
proper spinster, hair in a bun, spectacles, and all.  And *she* didn't 
bend the rule about no first years with brooms -- she went to 
Dumbledore and asked for permission.  Snape is not strict about rules 
in the same way that McGonagall is.  He is much more machiavellian 
(and more interesting), he enforces rules only when it suits his 
purposes. 

Hooch came across as really cool in the movie.  In the book, though, 
she just seems flustered and unprepared for Neville's accident. 

About my deingrating what the female professors do -- I may have 
overstated my case, but I was trying to make a point about how JKR 
presents the female faculty. In other words, *I'm* not trying to 
denigrate the female faculty, but I think to some extent canon does 
denigrate them.  If what Madame Pomfrey does is so important, why 
isn't she Dr. Pomfrey? The title of school nurse *implies* someone who 
just fixes sniffles, even though she in fact does much more.  And by 
saying that Sprout just "prunes flowers", I mean that she's not shown 
using any real powers of her own. When have we ever seen Sprout do 
anything magical?  Given what she is shown as doing, she might as well 
be a muggle or a squib working with magical items, like Filch is. 
(Putting scarves on the mandrakes apparently took some skill, but not 
necessarily magical skill.)  I can't remember a single spell she has 
done. Snape is presented as a very powerful wizard: in addition to 
(expertly) cooking potions, he apparates, does all sorts of spells, 
knew tons of curses even as a child, and managed to spy on Voldy and 
live to tell about it.  Sprout is presented as basically, a gardener. 

I'm willing to grant that there are a few more female charcters than I 
acknowledged in my previous post.  But remember, this is a few females 
in a story than runs (in the US edition) over 1800 pages.  Among the 
important charcters, the proportion of females is very low; maybe we 
can both agree on that.