The Female Students (and other female characters)

[judyserenity]

No: HPFGUIDX 33345

I was going to forget about this argument.  But, now my honor is at 
stake! 

Michael Goodman wrote, in response to my comments about women in the 
Potterverse:
> ...I find the whole argument absurd. 

Umm, if you tbink arguing about this topic is absurd, then why are 
*you* arguing about it?

At last count, there were 33,343 posts in this forum.  Just about 
every aspect of the Harry Potter stories has been discussed here at 
one point; I don't see why this topic is any more absurd than the 
others. 


He then continued:
> The Harry Potter story is fantasy. So what if we get males doing
> more than their real-life counterparts...

Michael, I see a couple of things you may be getting at here. The 
first is that JK Rowling is entitled to tell the story as she wants.  
That's true, but readers are also entitled to discuss the story, 
commenting as they like.  Freedom of expression works both ways. 

The second thing you might be saying is that since this is fiction, it 
has no influence on real life.  I would strongly disagree with that.  
Fiction can have a huge impact on how people see the world.  This 
brings me to another comment:


Amanda Lewanski said:
> ...What will matter to my daughter, be she ultimately gay or 
> straight, fat or thin, tall or short, blonde or not, will be how my 
> husband and I teach her how to perceive herself, much moreso than 
> the gender balance in the books she reads.

Amanda, I'm wondering how old your daughter is?  I think you may be 
overestimating how much influence parents have, and underestimating 
how much influence the general culture has.  I don't have children of 
my own (unfortunately), but I've closely watched my sister struggle in 
vain to overcome the media's influence on my nephews. I also have 
taught classes on gender role socialization.  I'd say that parents who 
try to oppose popular culture are usually fighting a losing battle.


On a different aspect on the gender topic, Red XIV "babelfisherperson" 
said:
> Actually, Voldemort mentions Mrs. Lestrange as a Death Eater who 
> never renounced him, and indicated that once she was freed from 
> Azkaban, he would basically make her his 2nd in command. So 
> apparently even the severely bigoted Death Eaters don't see women as 
> being inferior to men.

Voldemort does mention the Lestranges, although he doesn't mention 
Mrs. Lestrange separately from her husband.  We only know that the 
Lestranges are a married couple because Sirius said so. Voldemort 
doesn't say anything about making Mrs. Lestrange his second in 
command, only that "the Lestranges [both of them] will be honored 
beyond their dreams", which could mean a variety of things.  I have no 
idea whether the Death Eaters are supposed to see women as inferior, 
but they seem to be overwhelmingly male.  At least 14 Death Eaters are 
mentioned by name, of which Mrs. Lestrange is the only female. 

Pippin said:
> I think what makes the female characters (except Hermione) 
> less compelling than their male counterparts is that they are 
> socially secure....
> The male characters echo various aspects of Harry's struggles....
 
Well, the idea that JKR likes to feature "socially insecure" 
characters in an interesting one, and it seems possible that the 
important characters mirror Harry's own struggles. Maybe you should 
start a thread on this, Pippin.  

However, I don't see the female charcters as necessarily more secure 
than the males. Madame Maxime has to conceal her half-giant status.  
Rita Skeeter was last seen trapped in a jar and in danger of being 
revealed as an unregistered animagus.  In contrast, Cornelius Fudge 
has the highest ranked position in the British wizarding world, and no 
one is threatening his position.  

Even when males' postions are threatened and the females' positions 
are not, that's often because the females don't *have* a position.  
Artur Weasley was investigated by his employer, but Molly Weasley just 
doesn't have an employer. Lucius Malfoy was kicked off the Hogwarts' 
Board, but Narcissa Malfoy was never on the Board (if she had been, 
Draco would have been sure to brag about it.)  And, one of the reasons 
that fewer females are in threated positions is that there are just 
fewer females in the story, period.  For example, all of James' 
friends are threatened in some way, but we haven't seen Lily's friends 
at all.  So, I don't see this "threatened characters get more 
attention" theory as explaining the low profile of females in the 
Potterverse.

Lastly, I'll quote Michael Goodman again:
> I personally think that JKR has achieved what very few writers 
> before her have done. She has created a magical fantasy that has
> universal appeal to both young and old. 

Well, I don't know about universal appeal, but certainly the stories 
have broad appeal.  And in case anyone got the wrong impression, I 
like the stories very much.  I wouldn't be here if I didn't.  But, 
that doesn't mean I have to like everything about them.  

Anyway, now I'm going to write about a much more fun topic -- why I 
love Snape.