[HPforGrownups] Re: Wizarding culture ( was Classical knowledge/ cultural )

[Edblanning at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 33477

I
Eloise
> 
> <<<Others have noted a lack of reference to the lack of cultural/
> recreational
> pusuits taking place at Hogwarts. I see it as part of this. There seems to
> be a whole cultural dimension missing or at least not mentioned in the
> curriculum: literature, music, art, language, (other) sports, dance . The
> one thing they do have is History.  I suppose we could see a parallel with
> kids
> going off to a specialist music or stage school, but in the muggle world,
> there is generally an attempt to keep up a general education alongside the
> specialist one. I just can't see very rounded characters coming out if all
> they ever learn is magic.>>>



> Ev vy replies
> If we assume a complete separation of the two worlds (and I think that it's
> indeed so and it's taken place long ago), then these cultural pursuits may
> be considered as Muggle and not worth learning. E.g. literature. Let's take
> literature in the Middle ages: adventures of knights fighting against
> mythical beasts ('Beowulf'), romances, quest stories, lives of saints (I
> know it's not all, but at 2.30 a.m. I can't think of more examples). If the
> separation of the worlds goes back in time as far as middle ages (or
> further), I do see wizards completely ignoring literature, or most of it as
> not entirely applicable in their world (Merlin is legendary in our world,
> but in the wizarding world he's a part of history, and what about Circe?
> She's not Medieval, but the reasons apply to her, IMHO). And contemporary
> wizards would ignore those writings for the same reason. We don't know if
> anything like a notion of being a saint exists in the wizarding world. I,
> as a Muggle, had to read excerpts from lives of saints, but it was abstract
> for me (not that I didn't enjoy reading them). I love 'Beowulf', but how
> many people in Poland know it (I'm Polish, BTW)? Not many, as it's a part
> of British culture. So all these writings may have for wizards the same
> value as for Muggles (even in Britain, how many people read 'Beowulf' or
> lives of saints and remember exactly what it was about; I don't remember a
> single thing from the lives of saints; I can't refer to 'Beowulf' in the
> same manner as I still remember it quite well), or even less. Muggles would
> read and forget, wizards wouldn't read at all, why bother? And maybe those
> talents that Muggles have for literature, music (wizards can dance - Yule
> ball) were somehow substituted with the talent for magic. Just a thought,
> not re-considered.
> 
> 

Bit late replying as I've been trying to get on with some work.

I take a lot of your points, but I feel as if I'm being branded as a bit of a 
cultural fascist.

As we have both said, characters like eg Merlin are mythical to us and real 
to wizards and I agree, they may have their own texts about these and so 
disregard ours ( except perhaps in Muggle Studies).

I am very surprised though if they don't have literature. I am not expecting 
them to sit around reading Jane Austen, or whatever, but
1) they seem to be very literate. Books figure prominently.
2) we know they read for pleasure ( Witch Weekly, for example)
3) from the little we know of the contents of both the Daily Prophet and 
Witch Weekly, there are certainly witches/ wizards with enough imagination to 
write fiction!

therefore I would expect them to have developed their own literary tradition.

I don't know enough anthropology, but can anyone give me an example of a 
literate society which does not have literature?

Regarding music

Yes, we have some examples,of music, on the Wizarding Wireless Service (?) 
and the Weird Sisters, but I recall no incident of a student playing music 
(Fluffy incident excepted). Even if all their tuition happens at home, you 
would expect musically inclined students to bring their instruments with them.
And , incidentally, western muggle music (both serious and popular) does seem 
to cross cultural barriers: think of Japan, Korea, China.

And what about art? All those pictures. We have one incident of a student who 
is artistically inclined designing banners (sorry, not sure where this is).

The bottom line for me is that the arts are a vehicle for self expression, a 
route to greater self-awareness, an outlet for the emotions etc etc.
I find it  difficult, from my mugglecentric view of the universe  to imagine 
that the wizarding world (which seems to act emotionally on the same plane as 
the muggle one) doesn't have the same need for similar artistic outlets.

Given that we do know that music, art and sport do exist in the Wizarding 
world, I can't imagine why they don't (apparently) have more emphasis, even 
if extra-curricular, at Hogwarts: all those young people ( and hormones) 
wandering around. Isn't it *essential* in a boarding school to make sure that 
students have adequate outlets for their energies and emotions? Whenever 
Snape or McGonagall catch our heroes wandering around, the response seems to 
be 'you should be outside' or 'go to the tower'. To do what, precisely? It's 
like they're primary school kids who can just be 'sent out to play'. No 
wonder there was so much excitement at the setting up of the duelling club.

Eloise

       'You shouldn't be inside on a day like this,' he said, with an odd, 
twisted smile.
       'We were just on our way to choir practice, Professor.' ...



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]