Slytherin/Saving Snape/Snape and Neville (LONG)

[mlfrasher at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 33565

Hello All!
Catching up on a few things that caught my eye.....

Alexander Lomski wrote: 

>For me to say that Slytherins are Gryffindors is a little embarrassing. 
Difference >between a Slytherin and a Gryffindor IMHO lies not in their 
like/dislike of DA and >DADA, but in their inner motivations.

>For a Slytherin, ambition is perhaps the most important quality (as was 
stated quite >clearly by the Sorting Hat many times). For Gryffindors, this 
may be courage or >loyalty (though the latter is also a quality of 
Hufflepuff). A Slytherin may easily hate >the Dark Arts - it's not important, 
as many spells that are not DA can be easily >used for "evil" purpose. A 
Gryffindor could possibly use even the darkest >Unforgivable curses for noble 
ends (it's unlikely that Crucio can be used this way, >but Imperio definitely 
can be used to save one's life).

Well, I think it has something to do with the fine line between 'dark' and 
'light'.  Looking at Gryffindor and Slytherin and opposite sides of the same 
coin.  Your argument on the DA almost seems like the "ends justifies the 
means".  I just believe that there are more than meets the eye in the GH/SH 
relationship, foregoing what the hat says in a few stanzas.

I do not think that the Unforgivable curses could be used by a Gryffindor or 
anyone else for that matter for noble ends.  They're the UN-forgivable curses 
for a reason.  Someone could use many many other counter curses for self 
defense or to save another's life without resorting to any one of those.  I 
think Harry understood that when he stopped Sirius and Lupin from killing 
Wormtail.  Something that Dubmledore praised him for, and also stated that 
James would have approved of Harry's decision.  As much as I would have liked 
to see them zap Pettigrew with some green light, it doesn't justify it 
(although I would want some death if I'd been stuck in Azkaban for that long) 
they could have put the immobilization spell on him and that would have 
alleviated any chances of him turning to the rat and running away.  A better 
chance of bringing him to justice and proving Sirius' innocence.

Gabriele commented on 'saving' Snape and his approachability:

>Of course it depends on the approach! When you are a naive inexperienced 
young >girl there cannot be success. When you have some experiences with 
difficult >characters, when you do not insult his intellect and when you are 
careful and >sensitive enough to check how far you can go in your 
"Florence-Nightingale-for-the->soul-attitude", then there is a possibility to 
reach his inside step by step.  

Perhaps I wasn't clear here, and I agree with you.  I meant I think to 
approach Snape with the purpose of changing him (his overall personality, 
that is) would be a waste of effort as I don't think he really needs to be 
changed.  And him being a grown man, the thought of a young girl doing this 
never really entered my mind.

>What I believe has to be changed (and changing or making a difference is 
saving >too) is his attitude against weak and helpless figures such as 
Neville. [EDIT]

>When he is after Harry, Ok, I think Harry can take it (and sometimes 
deserves some >punishment) also Hermione and Ron (not to speak of my beloved 
Weasley twins). But they are talented wizards and witches with a lot of self 
confidence, knowledge and humor, not so Neville. A horrible and supressing 
attitude against weak and helpless people, in particular against children is 
a sign of despotism and tyranny and not of tolerance and freedom. Such an 
attitude fits better to a Voldemort empire, which Snape is fighting against.

I have the greatest sympathy for Neville, but I think this kid is nervous 
about everything.  There is no doubt he's got a huge burden to bear but in 
contrast to Harry, he's at least known (as far as we can guess, although this 
is not confirmed) the truth of what happened to his parents, and he has a 
grandmother, who is a little scary, but at least cares for his well being.  
Harry who is made of tougher stuff obviously, was lied to be his guardians 
all his life, despised, and told basically that he was good for nothing every 
day of his life.  It's amazing, and admirable, this kid didn't go postal and 
has ANY confidence.  

I think Snape is fighting against ultimate evil and I don't equate this with 
picking on a student.  OK, so he's not a particularly nice man, but that's 
hardly a crime, or tyranny.  Neville, who has shown us that he *can* muster 
up some strength, needs to learn at some point to stand up to his fears or 
else he'll be a victim all his life.  The rest of the cast can't do that for 
him for the rest of his days.  People *should* protect the weak, but 
sometimes doing so absolves the "weak" from protecting themselves.

Saying that, I agreed with marina's observation that Snape is horrible to 
everyone (an equal opportunity offender, if you will) and actually keeps 
Neville on his toes.

Dicentra, who loves Snape principally because of his striking resemblance to 
Alan Rickman mused:

Ahh yes, Rickman made him easier to like.... ;)

>He *is* horrible. Despite the fact that he's brilliant, complex, and all 
those other >things, he's also vindictive, mean, and spiteful. Revenge seems 
to be his main >motivation, and anger his underlying state. I would speculate 
that many of the >"good" things he's done have not been out of the goodness 
of his heart. [EDIT] ...He also would have killed Sirius in the Shrieking 
Shack if Sirius had made just one false move, and he hates nearly everyone 
for the most trivial of
>reasons. We might find later that he's got redeeming characteristics, but 
even if he >does, he's sure got a lot of strikes against him, especially in 
JKR's book (the >figurative one, that is).

It's not clear that we can assume that anything altruistic Snape has done was 
done through a command by Dumbledore.  As Sirius and the gang basically tried 
to have him killed or maimed years ago for "just snooping around", I don't 
think that was one of Black and Lupin's best moments (I think Lupin feels 
remorseful about that) and I'd hardly call this trivial.  James had the sense 
enough to see how dangerous that idea was.  I mean they spent years figuring 
how to be be Animagi so they could safely be with Lupin, so the group 
obviously knew the dangers.  

Believe me, I'm waiting for more from JKR on Snape's past.  I still read the 
books thinking, "What a jerk!", but this character has continually surprised 
me, and being a jerk doesn't mean his motivations are bad or all selfish.