[HPforGrownups] Fidelius & Dumbledore - Hagrid's Competence

[Alexander]

No: HPFGUIDX 33997

  Greetings!

> Cindy wrote to us about Fidelius, Sirius and Dumbledore:

c> I think that Dumbledore doesn't have enough facts to know
c> that Sirius (supposedly) betrayed the Potters yet. There
c> are a few key facts Dumbledore doesn't know yet:

  What? Not enough facts?
  He knows enough to instruct Hagrid to go to Godric's
Hollow and take Harry from ruins (hence Dumbledore knew
about Potters dead, Harry alive and Voldemort disappeared).

c> 1. Dumbledore doesn't know that the Fidelius Charm was
c> ever cast. The Potters could have changed their minds, or
c> were attacked before they cast the spell.

  Nope. Attack happened 1 _week_ after the spell was cast.
Surely timing of casting was arranged and discussed (such
things are better made ASAP).
  He definitely knew that Fidelius was cast and he knew
Sirius was chosen to be the Secret Keeper (the persona of
Secret Keeper was a subject of debate between Dumbledore and
Potters).

c> 2. Dumbledore doesn't know that the Charm was cast
c> correctly. Also, as we recently discussed, there could be
c> additional means to break the spell that we don't know
c> about (Imperius Curse on the SecretKeeper).

  Do you mean that in 7 days after the spell has been cast
_nobody_ did bother to check if it works? IMHO it's a _very_
optimistic approach...
  If Imperius was cast on Sirius Black then he is enemy
nonetheless (though an unintentional one). In fact, either
he is a traitor or he is under Imperius. In both cases, his
appearance at Godric's Hollow is not a thing to be ignored.

c> I don't think Dumbledore believed Sirius to be innocent
c> at that early stage when Hagrid showed up, either. I
c> think he came to that conclusion later once he had all
c> the facts.

  He had all the facts then. No new facts were found after
the attack.
  Even more. Sirius is either a traitor or under Imperius.
Still, when Hagrid tells he will go and return the
motorcycle to Sirius, Dumbledore (again) does not react at
all! Of course, Sirius is already captured by MoM at that
time, but Dumbledore still has no idea of that.

  Nah, if you want to explain Dumbledore's behavior by
canon, you'll have to work real _hard_ here... :)

  And still one more question: where is the motorcycle? It
was not returned to Sirius, so it's presumably in Hagrid's
posession... Will it spring up later in the books?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> Debbie wrote to us about Hagrid's Competence:

e> I disagree that Hagrid did everything right in his first
e> lesson. Yes, he did give instructions on handling
e> hippogriffs, but he didn't make sure everyone was paying
e> attention. Then, rather than letting each person in the
e> class take a turn that he could supervise, he let
e> everyone try at once.

  Let's look at it from the point of view of... well...
Dumbledore. Indeed, what results did the lesson have?

  Draco has learnt that he should listen to the teacher even
if he doesn't respect his personality. That is, teacher's
knowledge is more important than his social status.

  Hagrid has learnt a lot about his own flaws. He never
again repeats his mistake during both PoA and GoF. In fact,
he has maturated and learnt something about responsibility
for others.

  Definitely an excellent result for a single lesson. I know
teachers who couldn't achieve the same during _years_ of
education...

  Of course, from this PoV it's not Hagrid who is a teacher
but Dumbledore. There had been a lot of debate some time ago
about what Dumbledore do except eat pastries and talk
speeches. Here's a perfect example of his mentoring. Indeed
he learns not mundane knowledge, but skill of making correct
decisions - IMHO a much more important skill in real life.

> Tabouli wrote to us:

t> Does anyone else, like me, suspect that Character
t> Building is, far more than education, Dumbledore's
t> highest priority? Presumably this fits in with his "it is
t> our choices that make us what we are" and his "making the
t> right choice, not the easy choice" philosophy. Knowledge
t> can help people identify the best choices, but it's more
t> important to have the strength of character to choose
t> them?

  That's it. Not only suspected, but was sure it's true
since 3rd book.
  I'm a bad English acronym inventor, so I leave it up to
you to create one - I join in advance! :)

Sincerely yours,
Alexander Lomski,
(Gryffindor/Slytherin crossbreed),
still happy to throw weird ideas into the community.

    - In an ethically ambiguous situation decision must be
      made according to logical analysis.
    - In a logically contradictive situation most ethical
      decision is the most correct one.
        Sergey Pereslegin, "Ethics and the Strategion of
                            Undirect Operation"