[HPforGrownups] Re: Christian culture (was Secular Christmas anywhere?)

[Edblanning at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 34199

In a message dated 28/01/02 13:00:15 GMT Standard Time, aiz24 at hotmail.com 
writes:


> Christianity is so dominant in Britain (as here in the 
> U.S.) that people can say "Easter break is purely secular"--unless 
> they're sensitized by having, say, grown up Jewish, in which case they 
> don't quite see it that way.
> 
> I think we just have a language problem; "secular" is the closest word 
> for describing the Hogwarts celebrations, but it falls short because 
> it implies a complete separation from the religious that just doesn't 
> jibe with suits of armor singing "O come let us adore Him, Christ the 
> Lord."  Let's try to make the distinction between Hogwarts's 
> celebrations and a Christmas mass without also blurring the 
> distinction between a secular holiday (e.g. Armistice Day) and a 
> mostly-secularized celebration of Christian holy days.  
> 
> 

The problem I have is that however we define 'secular' we still seem to have 
wizards and the school in particular basing their calendar around Christian/ 
muggle feasts. Why? British schools have their three term pattern determined 
by the religious holidays at Easter and Christmas. (In addition, the spring 
half term used to be determined by Pentecost (Whitsun).) 
Now, Britain is an increasingly secular state, but *culturally* I think a 
majority of people not actively of other faiths would still regard themselves 
as 'Christian', hence the large number of people who uses the church to 
'hatch, match and dispatch' or attend Christmas services, but who would never 
attend at other times or regard themselves as 'religious'. Christianity is 
the background culture, even if poorly understood. It is this use of 
Christian *culture* as a backdrop to the school year and celebrations that 
strikes a false note to me.

If wizards are are presumed not to, either now or in the past, be religiously 
Christian, then why should they apparently be even to the smallest extent 
culturally so? Many people seem to assume that the wizarding world separated 
from the muggle world some considerable time ago, this accounting for the 
lack of familiarity with muggle dress codes etc. The Christmas customs we see 
at Hogwarts, trees, carols, crackers, 'traditional' Christmas dinner etc 
mostly date (in the UK) from the 19th century on, long after this assumed 
break. ( The Christmas tree came from Germany via Prince Albert)
I am English, so not fully qualified to comment, but I did spend part of my 
childhood in Scotland, ( in the late 60s) and, at least in the region where 
we lived, Christmas was a very low key thing indeed: Hogmanay was the main 
winter celebration.
What I am saying is that before the rampant commercialism of recent years, 
not all Christian British muggles celebrated the full-blown Victorian 
Christmas that Hogwarts seems to emulate so to me it seems quite discordant.

Cassie
>Also, many of the traditions of Christmas and Halloween are taken from pagan 
>rituals. The most recognizable example is the putting of presents under the 
>tree during Yule. Halloween, from what I understand-is majorly pagan and 
>American. At least I've assumed the going door to door/dressing up/candy 
deal 
>was American. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. 

I was unaware of the presents under the tree having a Pagan significance. For 
Christians, the giving of presents echoes the gifts of the Magi.

Hallowe'en is of course a bone of contention, having both Christian and Pagan 
ancestory: I have heard both Christians and Pagans vigorously claim ownership 
and complain that it has been hi-jacked by the other faith. The name is 
Christian, being the Eve of All Hallows' (Saints') Day. Yes, the modern 
manifestation is largely American, but we have plenty of indigenous customs, 
including in the north, 'guising', where children go from house to house in 
costume, perhaps saying a party piece, in return for sweets or money (no 
threats attached!). I actually did this with Sunday School!!!

What I want to know is why we *don't* see wizards celebrating their own 
winter festival, something that seems pretty basic to most cultures.

I increasingly feel that this interaction between the wizard and muggle 
worlds is an aspect of the Potterverse that JKR has not worked out with as 
much vigour as other aspects of the books. But then she's not God, despite 
our tendencies to expect from her a God-like control of her creation.
 
Eloise
PS  Someone asked about the Fat Friar
My guess is that he was an alchemist. Joining religious orders was one of the 
few ways of becoming educated in the middle ages and I believe it was not 
uncommon for monks to be involved in scientific research (cf The Name of the 
Rose). In fact, even Mendel in the 19th century (the one who stidied 
inheritance in peas) joined the Augustinians for this reason.


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