Voldemort's Unwilling Executioners (WAS: Ludo Bagman...)

[ssk7882]

No: HPFGUIDX 34232

I found myself wondering whatever happened to the Imperius Victims 
of the first Vold War.  Where are the Imperius victims?

Judy wrote:

 > Excellent point!  Just whom did Mulciber put under the
 > Imperius Curse, if everyone and his uncle was really a
 > willing Death Eater?  We haven't seen anyone who actually
 > turned out to be Imperio'ed during Voldy's first period
 > in power.

I hold some hope that Arthur Weasley might turn out to have 
been one of them.  

It seems to me that the younger or lower-ranking ministry 
workers would have been prime targets for that sort of 
thing.  And I found the "The Unforgivable Curses" chapter
of GoF somewhat suggestive of that possibility.

Although "several hands rose tentatively into the air" when
Crouch invites the students to name the Unforgivables in DADA
class, he calls upon Ron.  (He's already, earlier in the class,
identified Ron as Arthur Weasley's son.)  And when Ron says 
that his father told him about one called the Imperius Curse,
Crouch/Moody responds with:

'Ah, yes,' said Moody appreciatively.  'Your father *would*
know that one.  Gave the Ministry a lot of trouble at one
time, the Imperius Curse.'"

Given Crouch's penchant for sly double-edged statements throughout
the book, I find myself wondering whether his comment there might 
not have a second meaning.  

And it would seem perfectly in character for Crouch to go out of his 
way to call on Ron to answer the question, just as he later chooses 
to call on Neville.  (I feel certain that he would have called on 
Harry, too, were it not for the fact that Harry didn't know the names 
of any Unforgivables and therefore never raised his hand.)  The man 
does seem to be a bit of a sadist.

Of course, if poor Arthur really *was* Imperio'ed at some point
during the first Voldie War, then it's clearly a Deep Dark Secret,
and not something that anyone's told the younger Weasley kids about. 
Ron is spooked by the spiders, but he is resolutely unfazed by either 
Crouch/Moody's comment or by the demonstration of the Imperius Curse 
itself.  Very disappointing for Crouch, I'm sure.

If Arthur Weasley really had been Imperio'ed at some time in
the past, it might also explain a bit of:

"'I've heard of his family,' said Ron darkly.  'They were 
some of the first to come back to our side after You-Know-Who
disappeared.  Said they'd been bewitched.  My dad doesn't
believe it.  He says Malfoy's father didn't need an excuse
to go over to the Dark Side.'"

This, from a kid who doesn't even know what the Dark Mark is?
And who was raised in a culture that seems extraordinarily
unwilling ever to speak (or even to think) about those days?
And yet he knows the specific *grounds* of Lucius Malfoy's 
acquittal?

If poor Arthur Weasley had really sincerely *truly* been Imperio'ed, 
then I imagine that Malfoy getting off on the same claim would have
really *rankled* -- rankled badly enough, perhaps, for him even to 
have mouthed off to his younger children about it, in spite of the 
general wizarding reluctance to speak of such matters.

Also, Ron seems to have an unusually hard time with the Imperius.
Could be genetic.  

A far-fetched speculation, I admit.  But I'm partial to it.

----

Judy wrote:

 > This also reminds me of a related question -- just who are all
 > those wizards in Axkaban?  Sirius talks as if there are lots
 > Voldemort supporters there, and we hear about Moody catching
 > dark wizards, but in the Death EAters chapter of GoF, Voldy
 > mentions only the Lestranges as being in Azkaban.  

Oh, I'm sure that there are plenty of Voldy's old supporters in 
Azkaban.  There are many gaps in the DE circle at the graveyard,
even if most of them go uncommented upon by Voldemort.

He only mentions the Lestranges in particular because they were
loyal enough to have acted in his service *after* he had been
discorporated.  The people who went to prison for serving him when he 
was still the Big Bad?  Nah, he doesn't bother to talk about them.  
To his way of thinking, those people don't warrant any special 
mention.

 > Maybe Voldy only mentioned people who were killed or captured
 > since the last time the circle was formed?

No, I think he only mentions people whom he has marked either for
particular praise (the Lestranges, the loyal servant at Hogwarts) or 
particular shame (the coward, the traitor).  The only reason he 
bothers to mention those "three dead in my service" at all, IMO, is 
because it rounds out the oratory.  He's already paused at that gap 
in the circle to denounce the coward and traitor, and to praise the 
loyalist; and so while he's there, he figures that he might as well 
mention the dead guys -- it evens out the sentence structure.  But I 
really think that's all there is to it.

 > Or maybe there are lower-level followers who aren't Death Eaters?

I feel certain that there are.  Or were, at any rate, back when V
was powerful.

---

Now me, *I* wonder about those prisoners Sirius claims Karkaroff put 
in Azkaban.  The "load of other people" Sirius says Karkaroff sent to 
prison in his place?  Who on earth are those people?  The only person
we know about is Rookwood.  Everyone else Karkaroff mentions in the 
Pensieve scene is already either dead or apprehended by the time
he cuts his deal.

Two suggestions occur.  Well...three.

(a) Karkaroff's testimony was not, in fact, sufficient to convince
the ministry to release him.  He named more names later on.

(b) Rookwood's arrest led to many other arrests (like Bagman's).  All 
of the people who were caught through Rookwood held Karkaroff 
responsible.

(c) There weren't "loads of people" at all.  There was just old 
Rookwood, who once treated Sirius to a long hoarse rambling half-mad 
monologue about that rotter Karkaroff through the bars of their 
respective cells one day, and Sirius just remembers it slightly
differently because...well, because his own grasp on reality wasn't
all that firm either, at the time.

---

Cindy herself had no difficulty imagining where all the Imperius
victims went.  She wrote:

> Oh, there probably are some innocent people who were only evil 
> because of Mulciber's Imperius curse.  Where are they, Elkins asks 
> (through a cloud of pipe smoke)?  Rotting in Azkaban, of course.  

Thus answering both my question and Judy's question in one fell
swoop!

> Wizard justice stinks.  You know it, and I know it.  Wizard justice 
> results in the innocent being locked up for life (Sirius), and the 
> evil-to-the-core getting off (Avery, Karkaroff, Pettigrew,
> Malfoy).  

Hey!  Don't abuse Avery!  Avery's not evil to the core.  He's just
misunderstood.

Oh, er...sorry.  Wrong thread.

> That said, I really must invite Elkins to put her feet up and 
> have a brandy while she explains why it is so important that 
> someone in canon be absolved of guilt because of the Imperius 
> Curse?  

<eyes light up>

Brandy?  Don't mind if I do.  

<leans back expansively and begins to muse>

Well...let's see now.  Why *is* it so important to me?  A very
good question, that.  I suppose that it all really goes back to that 
time when I was seven years old, and my mother...

<sits up abruptly in chair, sloshing brandy over upholstery, and 
narrows her eyes suspiciously at Cindy>

*Hey!*

That was sneaky, Cindy.  And I'm having this brandy tested before
I drink any more of it.

<puts brandy quite firmly down on the table>

Why is it important to me?  Oh, I don't know.  Part of it is my
discomfort with the feeling I sometimes get that JKR's moral universe
is composed of only three types of people: Wicked Villains; Those 
Strong and Brave Enough To Prevail Over All Manner of Coercion; and
Those Fast On Their Way To Becoming Either One or the Other.  

The other part of it is that the very idea of mind control scares
me silly -- it's a pet terror of mine -- and so I would find it
enjoyably frightening to be given evidence that Voldemort and his 
pals really *did* once force a whole lot of weak-but-well-meaning
wizards to do things against their will.  It would make the bad
guys scarier -- and scary is all to the good, AFAIC.

> In the meantime, I will scour canon for an example of someone who 
> served the Dark Lord only because they were under the Imperius 
> Curse  ::cough::VictorKrum::cough::

Good point.  I will accept Viktor as our canonical example of Victim
of Imperius and stop complaining.

(I'm still hoping to learn sad things about Arthur Weasley's past, 
though.)

> Apparently, serving the Dark Lord is so rewarding on its own merits 
> that DEs serve voluntarily and don't have to be coerced.  

As I've been imagining the whole DE thing, it *can't* be coerced.
It's a voluntary compact.  All of the DEs entered into that 
relationship willingly and consciously, IMHO.  More fools them.

But there are lesser ways of serving a cause.

> As for this Mulciber person, perhaps he uses Imperius sparingly 
> because a wizard can throw it off with a bit of concentration, 
> which would prove awkward if it happens at the wrong moment.  

Now, now.  Harry can shrug it off readily, yes.  But Crouch Sr.
was a powerful and experienced wizard, and even he had to fight
like the very devil to break through it.  And it took Crouch Jr. 
(whose magical capabilities seem not inconsiderable at all) ten
years to throw the thing off.

I think Harry's a freak, myself.

> So the Dark Lord probably did not give the really evil jobs to 
> those acting under the Imperius Curse.  Wizards acting under 
> Imperius probably drove the getaway broom or something.

Planted things, stole things, broke windows, scrawled anti-Muggle 
graffiti on public buildings...


-- Elkins, who may be weak-willed, but is nonetheless not (she hopes) 
either a Wicked Villain or fast on her way to becoming one.