Religion again (Mostly off-topic)

[judyserenity]

No: HPFGUIDX 34288

Gwen said, in reference to a post of mine:

> First of all, I believe that your particular brand of
> Judaism may be more orthodox than many. So whether you personally
> believe it's against your faith to have anything to do with any
> aspect of Christmas, that's actually immaterial.
> ...it would not be useful or fair to compare a highly orthodox
> Jew with a "Christmas & Easter" Christian... <

Gwen, I think you have seriously misunderstood me.  I know this is off 
topic, but my beliefs have been very much misrepresented here, and I 
want to set the record straight.  I do get around to discussing the 
Potterverse, towards the end.  

First of all, I'm not even close to being orthodox, let alone "highly 
orthodox."  I'm a member of a conservative congregation, and I'm 
nowhere near the most observant person at my synagogue.  My husband is 
Catholic.  I even was an official member of my university's Christian 
Fellowship for a while, although I've never been Christian.  (Long 
story.) 

I said that:
>> I stand by my statement that *my*
>> religious beliefs prohibit celebrating Christmas....<<

And Gwen replied:
>....one of the only other places I've experienced such a rigid
> resistance to any form of participation is, oddly, among Catholics,
> who sometimes do not allow non-baptised or unconfirmed people to
> receive a blessing at Communion....<

I don't feel that this is a fair comparison.  I'm simply saying what 
*my own* religious practices are.  You are comparing that to excluding 
others, which isn't the same thing at all. I will point out, though, 
that most religions have some form of exclusion of outsiders.  It is 
not just Catholics and Jews.  Hindus often won't allow non-Hindus into 
their temples, and conversion is usually impossible. Muslims won't 
allow non-Muslims into Mecca, let alone into the Grand Mosque.  I'm a 
lot less rigid than that.  (In fact, you're all invited to my 
synagogue! I'm having a quote-unquote "Adult Bat Mitzvah" March 2nd. 
If anyone from the list is in Ann Arbor that day, please stop by!) 

Gwen also said: 
> ...And for what it's worth, most Conservative and Reformed rabbis, 
> at least around where I live, don't consider it a violation to 
> celebrate (in the sense of having fun as part of) another faith's
> holidays. How else do you explain ecumenical services representing
> many Churches and Synagogues? How else do you explain
> cross-religious services (especially weddings) officiated by both a 
> priest and a rabbi? If a non-Christian accepts an invitation to a  
> "Christmas Open House" from a friend or coworker, congratulations, 
> that person has "celebrated" the holiday.... (Out of curiosity, if a 
> friend who is Christian dies, can you go to her funeral?...) <

I think we are using different meanings of the word "celebrate."  I am 
using it in the sense of *observing* a holiday, to recognize it as a 
day that is in fact holy.  You are referring to just attending  
someone's else's party in honor of the holiday.  Sure, I'll go to 
Christmas office parties and so forth, but that is quite different 
from having a Christmas tree in one's own house, which is what I had 
been discussing. And of course I'll go to a Christian funeral; sheesh! 

Ecumenical services celebrate the commonality between religions.  For 
example, the Passover Sedar is important in both Judaism and 
Christianity (where it is "The Last Supper.")  So, churches and 
synagogues will sometimes have a sedar together to celebrate the fact 
that they, do, in fact, have a lot in common.  However, this doesn't 
mean that the Jews present recognize Jesus as the Messiah, nor that 
the Christians present believe the Messiah hasn't come yet.  

Rabbis who will co-officiate at weddings with clergy of other faiths 
are very, very rare.  My sister and I both had to search long and hard 
to find any Rabbi who would officiate at our weddings at all, even 
without any other clergy officiating.  (We both married Christians.)  
The Rabbi who officiated at my wedding was from the Reform movement, 
but he at first refused to officiate at my wedding.  He only relented 
when I burst into tears.  (I had been turned down by a lot of other 
Rabbis at that point.) 


What I am saying (and maybe Jenny Ravenclaw is saying, too) is that 
it's really a problem for Jews when Christians expect us to just give 
up our own heritage and act like we're Christians.  And some people 
here, who have Christianity in their backgrounds, seem to be 
responding by saying "No, you're wrong. It's not a problem for most 
Jews to be asked to celebrate Christmas. If it's a problem for you, 
you must be some sort of extremist with a rigid and restrictive 
mindset, otherwise you'd be happy to celebrate my holiday."  Which I 
think proves my point better than anything I could ever say. 


While we're on the topic of Judaism, our Magical Moderator Amy sent me 
an email about something misleading that I said.  I said the important 
annual holidays in Judaism fall on the equinoxes.  But, what I meant 
was that the holidays fall *near* the equinoxes; that is, in the 
spring and fall.  Amy corrected noted that the Jewish calendar is 
basically a lunar one, and equinoxes are solar phenomena.  Consider 
this the correction to my previous correction.

Gwen also asked
> Isn't Buddhism actually the religion with the largest number of 
> followers worldwide? And isn't that followed by Islam? <

No, I don't think so.  I've heard that Christianity is the largest, 
with 2 billion followers. (Islam is next, with just over 1 billion, 
then Hinduism, with just under 1 billion.) So, I'd say the dominant 
religion in the Potterverse, Christianity, is in fact the dominant 
religion on the planet. 


OK, so, speaking of the Potterverse:

Gwen said:
> I think some aspects of magical education may
> touch on Kabbalah, such as Arithmancy.... <

I'm no expert in Kabbalah, but this sounds right to me. 

Gwen continued: 
> ...if any ultra-Orthodox Jewish kids were ever informed that they 
> are, in fact,untrained wizards and witches, well, one can hope that 
> as an alternative to Hogwarts, they could be sent to the top-secret
> magical Yeshiva. That way they can harness their abilities while in
> an environment that will inundate them with the "right" kind of 
> mysticism. <

Interestingly enough, there is reason to think that ultra-orthodox 
Jews would, of all observant Jewish groups, have the *least* problem 
with Hogwarts.  The rather misleading term "ultra-orthodox Jew" 
usually refers to someone from the Chasidic movement.  This is the 
past of Judaism that is most likely to believe in magic and see it as 
a positive force (that ultimately emanates from God, of course.)   As 
some Christian commentators have noted, most of the magic done at 
Hogwarts is non-occult; that is, it doesn't involve summoning spirits 
or demons.  So, it's not necessarily the type of magic forbidden by 
the Bible. People in other branches of Judaism are probably more 
likely to see all forms of magic as something that attempts to 
interfere with God's will (if they believe in magic at all, that is.) 

So, what do we know about religion in general in the Potterverse? We 
know that Christmas is celebrated at Hogwarts.  And, there is an 
Easter break.  And, we never see students complain that their religion 
is being left out.  What does this tell us?  Well, I'd guess that 
there are no practicing Jews or Muslims at Hogwarts.  I just don't see 
what they'd eat.  (Can't see what a devout Buddhist or Hindu would 
eat, either.  Maybe the Patils only avoid beef?) And, I think Muslims 
would have a hard time with the course schedule; when would they pray? 
 Jews, Muslims, and people of other non-Christian faiths might have a 
hard time with classes being held on their holidays, too. 

On the other hand, we don't see any Christian students praying, 
either. There is no mention of a chapel, as far as I recall.  So, my 
best guess is that Hogwarts is made up almost entirely of cultural 
Christians, but few if any of them are very observant. 


-- Judy