mechanical isolation / muggle clothes /Flamel

[bboy_mn]

No: HPFGUIDX 40792

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., swimminwoman86 at a... wrote:
> In a message dated 7/3/2002 11:21:22 PM US Eastern Standard Time, 
> catlady at w... writes:
> 
> > > One listie once used the absence of a Nicholas 
> > >Flamel Famous Wizard card to argue that Flamel was 
> > >a Muggle. Being a Muggle would excuse him from 
> > taking an active role in the war about Voldemort
>  
> Well, Muggle's aren't supposed to have known about 
> magic, are they? How could Flamel possibly be a muggle? 
> Not every famous wizard on the card took part in the fight 
> against Voldemort, did they? If that was the case then it 
> would have been impossible for Merlin and the other wizards 
> to have been on the cards. So, assuming that he is a wizard, 
> he would most likely still have a card wouldn't he? Sorry if 
> I sound dumb in all this, it is just not  clicking in my 
> brain yet!
>  ~Cindy~
> 
> 
> 

I guess you could title my post "All of the Above".

I'll try to respond to the question posted here and to some of the
responses to this post. (Hope I can pull it off.)

The Card- 
Do we know that their is no Nicholas Flamel Wizard Card? 
First, Ron has over 500 cards. That doesn't say there are only 500
cards, just that he has collected 500 so far, and it's conceivable
that he may have some logic to his collecting. Like, finish his
collection of all the potions master's, then get all the medieval
witches, then all the famous Auror. Not saying that's true, but we
don't know why he needs Agrippa or Ptolemy. Is it to complete his
collection, to complete some sub-collection, or because he has some
particular interest in those people? 

Note at this point that Ptolemy was a real person, just as Flamel was
a real person.

Another point of interest is that despite having 500 wizard cards, Ron
isn't all that great at wizard history, and even makes up answers on
one of his history tests. So he could have Flamels card, but may not
have seen any significants in it. So he filed it away with most of the
other 500 wizards and witches who's names he can't remember.

Alchemy-
Alchemy is an art/pseudo-science know to muggle man, but in anything
which, in the grand scheme of things, would be considered modern
times. Nicolas Flamel, in real muggle history, is the only known
person to have decode and demonstrated the art of alchemy. Known by
anecdotal evindence, but not by empirical evidence. 

The two basic concept in alchemy are turning base metals into precious
metals, and to create the stone that provides imortality for as long
as you have the stone and can apply it. Lead into gold, and imortality
are certainly feats of magic to any muggle mind. 

Also, in fairtales and other fictional stories of European sorcerers,
sorcerers are usually tied to the art of alchemy. So in fictional
history (to my limited knowledge), alchemist are usually wizards. The
king's wizard trying to make the king richer by turning lead into gold. 

Also note, that in fictional history, Merlin was the wizard to King
Arthur. So through out fictional history, there has always been some
overlap of the magic and muggle worlds. Some knowledge of each world
by the other. So it's not unreasonable for magic Dumbledore to work
along side muggle Flamel.

The confusion around Flamel comes in because this is the real history
of the real Flamel applied to fiction. Keep in mind that, although he
supposedly succeeded at alchemy, he is none the less dead. 

Flamel-
As I implied before, the fact that Flamel was a real person only
clouds the issue. But Ptolemy was also a real person, and he is
included as a wizard. What did Ptolemy ever do that was so great that
we accept him as a wizard without question? Nothing as far as I know.

Why didn't Flamel help the cause?
When you've lived +600 years, war probably becomes very tedious. To a
man 600 years old and 600 years wise, war is the folly of man. 

Do we really know that Flamel didn't help? 
I don't think so. Maybe he was a stratigist. With +600 years of
knowledge, having seen hundreds of wars, and having seen hundreds of
psychotic megalomaniacs, knowledge may have been his greatest weapon.

On the other hand, right now a guerilla war of sorts is going on. It's
the war of Harry Potter against Voldemort and the Death Eaters. Where
the hell is everybody else? The point being, who is helping Harry?
They know Voldemort is obsessed with Harry, so where is the army of
powerful wizards guarding Harry; if for no other reason than to use
him as bait to capture Voldemort? 

In any war, even the World Wars, the bulk of the world sits
comfortably at home while children fight their battles for them. Now
the bulk of the wizard world is sitting back and letting three
children fight their battles for them. So is it really such a stretch
for a 650 year old man to sit this one out?

Is Flamel dead?
As of the current writing of the books, I say he is not. He is
'getting his affairs in order". How long does it take you to get 600
years of affairs in order? Proportionally, 50 years to a 650 year old
man is like 5 years to a normal person. Conclusion: Flamel could
easily take 10 or 20 years to get his affairs in order.

CONCLUSION: ?

NONE

With the very limited references to Flamel, there is simply no way to
reach a conclusion. Opinions, yes; but I can't see any evidence
however subtle to confirm either position.


"Bboy_mn"