[HPforGrownups] Re: Religion (names and snakes)/ diversity/connections

[Edblanning at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 40802

Christi
> A couple other things which point towards a Christian influence:
> 
> ~Some of the characters names--I can think of James and Peter right 
> off the top of my head--are Biblical in origin (or at least, have 
> 

I honestly think this is merely cultural. Particularly in England (which 
doesn't have the same corpus of regional names as other parts of the UK), 
Biblical or Christian-associated names are very common. In fact James for 
long headed the annual list of most commonly registered boys' names.
We have noticed before that the younger generation of wizards tend to have 
what we would think of as 'ordinary' names, whereas may older wizards do not, 
but tend towards the classical, mythological, or just plain strange. This 
doesn't work completely, of course, as we have Molly and Arthur of the older 
generation and Sirius and Severus as contemporaries of James and Peter. But 
perhaps they were of a transitional generation. The present Hogwarts students 
mostly have pretty Muggle-sonding names.

> ~The wizard attitude towards snakes and Parselmouths.  The notion of 
> serpents as evil is primarily a Judeo-Christian concept (think the 
> Garden of Eden); several Eastern and pre-Christian beliefs look on 
> the snake as a symbol of wisdom and rebirth.
> 
> 
More specifically, I suspect this is primarily a Christian association, which 
arose as a result of connecting the serpent of the garden of Eden with Satan 
(capital letter, no article!Satan, that is). As has been pointed out before, 
this concept of Satan is not found in Judaism.
In fact, given that Jesus compares Moses lifting of the serpent in the 
widerness to his own crucifixion (John, 3, 14),  he himself doesn't seem to 
have had any problems with its image.
The incident Jesus refers to is in Numbers 21, where God instructs Moses to 
make a bronze image of a poisonous serpent and set it on a pole, so that 
those who had been bitten by snakes could look at it and be cured by 
something that sounds like a form of sympathetic magic. This relationship 
between snakes and healing was found elswhere in the ancient world: in an 
example of strikingly similar imagery, the symbol of Aesculapius, the Roman 
god of healing, is a staff around which a snake is coiled. In the modern 
world, the caduceus, (actually the winged staff of Hermes, nothing originally 
to do with healing), around which two serpents are coiled is commonly a 
symbol of the medical profession.

In Ancient Egypt, snakes had both positive and negative connotations. The 
giant snake demon, Apophis, was the counterpart to the sun god and thus 
symbolic of dark powers. (In the Book of the Dead he is portrayed as being 
vanquished by a cat.)

OTOH, the Pharaohs wore the sacred Ureaus cobra on their foreheads (think of 
Tutankhamen) as a powerful symbol to protect them from their enemies. Snakes 
also symbolised eternal life. 

> I agree with the idea that this doesn't necessarily indicate that the 
> wizards are Christian (although they could be), merely that they, 
> like the rest of European culture, have been strongly influenced by 
> that philosophy.  

Or at least by its imagery. 
......................
A thought on diversity which just hit me.
Crouch Jr. describes Winky as using 'her own brand of magic', which implies 
that there is a difference between house-elf magic and wizard magic. This 
would seem to be confirmed by the way in which Dobby appears to disapparate 
on the stairs of Hogwarts after Harry sets him free, when we know that this 
is impossible for wizards.
So are there actually *different* types of magic in the Potterverse?
......................
Ali  (alisonb2210, that is. This is getting confusing!) wrote:
> In HPforGrownups at y..., "tmarends" <tmarends at y...> wrote:
> >  Sophia wrote:
> > > 
> > > Live long and pr....NO, NO, I mean,
> > >>>> May the fo...<<<<
> > >nope...Ah! How about: Draco 
> > > dormiens numnquam titillandus.
> > > 
> > 
> > This statement caught my attention.  Has anyone else noticed some 
> of 
> > the similarities between Star Wars and Harry Potter?  How the 
> infant 
> > (Luke/Harry) who can bring the downfall of the Dark Lord 
> > (Palpatine/Voldemort) is hidden for years until the time is ripe 
> for 
> > them to learn about their powers (the Force/Magic).
> 
> 
> Yes, and also:
> 
> Han Solo= Ron (means well, can be a bit goofy at times)
> Princess Leia= Hermione (the smart, serious one)
> 
> (these two very possibly will end up together, a la Han and Leia)
> 
> Obi-wan Kenobi or Yoda= Dumbledore. (The wise mentor)
> 
> Harry and Luke never know their real parents and were brought up in a 
> safe place, with an aunt and uncle, hidden from the evil force that 
> was the downfall of ma and pa. 
> 
> 

But aren't HP and Star Wars both modern myths which simply draw on the same 
mythic archetypes? There may well be parallels between the two, but I 
wouldn't go as far as to say that they are *connections*  and I would 
certainly not suggest that the one is in any way derivative of the other. The 
saviour who waits to learn of and/or develop his powers until the time is 
ripe is not an uncommon theme. 

Eloise
who will confess that in Episode 2, Yoda's duelling did make her remember 
little Prof. Flitwick's history as a duelling champion, although suspecting 
wizard duelling is more static!




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