TBAY: MACHINGARMCHAIR

[charisjulia]

No: HPFGUIDX 39437

And Cindy thought * she* was taking the Egg thing too far!

The sun is shining down on Theory Bay, small ripples are lapping 
playfully at the sides of the MACHINGARMCHAIR paddleboat and a salty 
smell infuses the air. The weather is very hot. Charis eyes the blue—
green water wistfully. Ah, to ride free with the waves! But no. She 
can't escape into the cool depths. She has to sit this out. Debbie is 
still expounding on her opinions regarding Neville's Spell—Shocked or 
otherwise state, what he witnessed and what he might remember and of 
course what that blasted Egg invoked in him.


Charis sighs. This is embarassing, is what this is. She opens her 
mouth trying to interrupt Debbie, but Debbie isn't listening. She 
lifts her hand timidly into the air and that fails too. Finally 
Charis shuffles as inconspicuously as possible up to Debbie, grabs 
the edge of Debbie's robes and gives a light tug. Debbie finally 
looks down. "Oh, Charis! Did you want something?" Charis glances 
nervously towards the other side of the paddleboat where Cindy and 
Eileen are peering at them curiously. "Err, somewhere private if 
possible Debbie?"


Debbie and Charis clamber clumsily out of the paddleboat out onto dry 
land. Debbie looks expectantly at Charis. She doesn't really like 
being interrupted mid—speech.


"Well? What do you want?"


Charis is looking sheepish. "Err, the thing is Debbie. . ."

"Yeeeeees?" says Debbie testily.

"The thing is, I, err, don't . . . well, in fact, what with one thing 
and another and, err, as things stand an'all, err,. . . you're 
probably right. About Neville. And the PTSD. And all those those 
other things."

Debbie looks taken aback. She wasn't really expecting this.

"You see," Charis continues more nervously still, "I can't really 
argue with you, because, <she gulps> because. . . well, to say the 
truth, because I haven't really looked into matters that thouroughly" 
(yes, that was definitely the best way to put it she thinks) She 
continues hurridly: "You see I was't even present at the Symposium,  
and I've never really looked into Memory Charms or Potions all that 
much and" <she gulps again— this is the hardest bit> "and I don't 
know all that much about PTSD"

Debbie stares. Why, this is unbelievable. This is precious! Oh, 
Charis has got herself into a fix! Debbie lifts her hand to her mouth 
and begins to giggle. 

Charis is visably affronted. Huh! What does Debbie mean by * that*! 
Charis scowls.

"Oooh," taunts Debbie, "you don't even  know what you're talking 
about! Hee, hee, hee!"

Charis's face sets. Her eyes narrow.

"Oh, that's your attidude, is it? I didn't expect this from you. 
Well, it's not true," she bellows, "Not True At All! All I meant was 
that I'm, err, not an expert, yeah, that's all. . ."

But Debbie's still giggling gleefully.

"Oh, I'll show you! Gimme that!" She yanks Debbie's notes out of her 
hands and starts perusing them muttering angrily ". . .don't know 
what I'm talking about, I'll show her don't know what I'm talking 
about. . ." 

Suddenly her head flies up a triumphant look written all over it:

"Ha! What about this, huh? * This* can't be right:

>If you look at Neville's reaction to the Dementors, 
>you'll notice that he was pale and has a higher voice than usual.  
>But he 
>wasn't shaking (Ron's comment seems to indicate that only Ginny 
>shook).  And 
>he wasn't babbling nonsense like he did after Crouch's 
>demonstration.  No, he 
>gave a cogent explanation of his reaction to the Dementor.  I have 
to 
>conclude that the Dementor didn't give him that Dolby Digital 
version at all. 
> It took Crouch to do that for him.  And why not?  Because he didn't 
get a 
>Memory Potion.  He got a Memory Charm.  And the Dementor may have 
made a 
>little headway in dislodging those memories from their airtight 
compartment 
>in Neville's brain.  But it didn't make enough headway, did it? 
Because 
>Neville wasn't unconscious.  He wasn't even shaking.  
>

Look, I'm not so sure about this bit at all. The Dementors didn't 
manage to dislodge Neville's Memory Charm, but Crouch with a couple 
of spiders did? But I thought that  Dementors were "amongst the 
foulist creatures that roam this earth." I thought that they drain 
every one near them of hope, peace and happiness, that they make you 
relive all your worst memories again and again pitilessly, till 
you're souless and evil and, you know, all that jazz. And you're 
telling me that one wizard with a wand can manage to drag up to the 
conscious mind what a Dementor couldn't? All the Dementor gets is a 
bit of feeble squeaking? I'm not convinced.

Ah, says Debbie smugly, but Crouch/Moody isn't all on his own here:

>But between the 
>Dementor and Crouch/Moody's demonstration and the sound of the egg, 
>Neville's 
>subconscious magic may be beginning to pick away at the shield 
>covering his 
>memories."
> 

Charis's mouth twiches. Hmmm, subconcious magic, huh? Boy, there 
seems to be an epidemic of that around teenage boys lately. . . 
Dimming lights, drudging up memories . . . Really interesting what 
goes on in yound wizarding ids, I say.


Now, I could possibly buy this but: urr, <thinks of Bertha at the 
hands of Voldemort> wouldn't it be * painful*? You know, not dealing—
with—your—issues—from—the-- past painful, but writhing—on—the—floor---
 screaming—your—mouth-- off painful? Wouldn't it be a bit masochistic 
of Neville, nevermind Neville's subconcious, to attempt it?


So, I'm not sure about this one.


No, the way I see it the only way out is if you assume that Neville 
faces what the Dementor forced him to relive on a daily basis (due to 
his Memory Potion) and that therefore he is more adept than Harry at 
handling the ugly memory attack on the train. Otherwise, if you 
assume that Neville simply doesn't have any bad memories  to access 
because of  his Memory Charm, then you're pretty much condemming 
Neville to horrific mind—breaking torture sometime in the future 
books in order to break the Charm—`cause if a Dementor couldn't do it 
then that's about the only thing that  can. (certainly a twitching 
spider couldn't). And I Don't Like That Prospect.

But what about that spider, huh? Why does Neville react so badly to 
it?

Debbie wrote:

"And if Neville doesn't have a visual image of his parents' torture 
until 
>Crouch shows him, how can he be suffering the effects of a Memory 
Potion?  
>Wasn't the supposed purpose of the potion to enable Neville to tell 
what 
>happened and who did it?  Aside from the biggest problem, that I 
can't 
>believe Neville was old enough to provide meaningful information 
(unless he 
>was fingering someone he already knew, like Evil!Gran or Evil!Uncle 
Algie or 
>an Evil! friend of Frank's), there's no evidence that he had any 
visual 
>memory, or at least anything he could access before Crouch came 
along.  I 
>think the evidence shows that the only visual he has is the one 
Crouch 
>provides for him, and that he still doesn't hear his parents 
screaming.
>
>
Hmmm, well, like I said, I'm, err, no expert. (that * is* what I 
said!). Do Memory Potions  really preclude the possibility that 
Neville really * didn't * have a visual image of his parents torture? 
Maybe whoever gave him the potion miscalculated. Maybe they thought 
Neville knew who did it—or that he would know was he helped along 
with a bit of memory enhancing—but Neville really didn't. So they 
gave the poor kid the Potion and all in vain. They finally caught the 
Four of course because of Moody's superb Auror work or (which is my 
prefered version) because Avery succombed to the hounding of his 
guilty conscience and squealed on the rest (which is how he avoided 
Azkaban you see) . But poor Neville was left with ear—splitting, err, 
* sounds* renting his head apart eversince nevertheless. 

So Neville prior to the spider incident indeed didn't have any visual 
image of Cruciatus victums twiching hopelessly. That's why it's such 
a shock for him, see?

Debbie's tapping her foot impatiently. But all this time Charis is 
ignoring the central issue here. "What about the Egg?" she 
asks. "What about Neville's supposed PTSD? I really took you to task 
about that and you think you can distract me like that , just picking 
insignificant holes elsewhere in my theory? Huh."

Charis remains calm and collected. (outwardly at least) Yes. About 
that Egg. Charis rolls up her shirt sleaves.

Debbie doesn't buy my PTSD argument:

>"No, I don't think so.  A sound may 
>trigger the onset of PTSD symptoms - one that is associated with the 
event.  
>But the triggering event brings back the memory of the event 
itself.  And the 
>context of the egg scene does not, IMO, support that conclusion. 
>
>
Hmm, I don't know about that. I believe (after extensive study in 
this field ;^) that PTSD affects different people in different ways. 
I've read stories of men coming home on the train from the FWW and 
seeing the logs on the railway as dead corpses. Others started 
dancing jigs in the middle of the battlefield. I read one very 
disturbing account of a soldier that took a hand grenade in each 
hand, told his comrades he'd blow them up if they came near him and 
ran towards the enemy rifle fire to throw the granades at them. He 
was killed. Is it really necessary that the memory of the event 
itself is relived?


But after all, how can we know what Neville is seeing or hearing at 
that moment? The Egg's wails may have brought back the traumatic 
experiences in full blast. Maybe Neville really * isn't * hearing 
wails here at all. Maybe they're drowned out by the sound of the 
screams in his head. We're not privy to his thoughts so we really 
don't know.
>
>
>"Everyone hears the egg's screeching.  Nobody's ever heard anything 
like it 
>before, so they begin guessing.  Seamus says that it "sounded like a 
>banshee."  Neville next offers, "It was someone being tortured!"  
Like 
>Seamus, he's just trying to guess what the sound of the egg was.  
>

Well, Seamus certainlly is simply making a suggestion here. But is 
Neville? I don't think he's just trying to be helpful. After all what 
Neville says is "it * was* someone being tortured" not "it sounded 
like". Which to me suggests that torture * is* really what Neville is 
hearing here. Not something that's just similar like Seamus is.


At this point Cindy, who's been eyeing those two suspiciously from 
the paddleboat a little of coast leans over the side and calls 
out "The wailing! Don't forget the wailing!"

>The first option is that Neville reacts the way he does because of 
>>those dreaded visits to his parents at St. Mungos.  What do his 
>>parents likely *do* during those visits?  Well, that depends on 
>>whether you want a Bang or not.
>>
>>If you want a Bang (as I surely do), then they *wail*, that's what 
>>they do! 
>>
>>Debbie nods.  "See?  Even Cindy doesn't *really* buy that Memory 
Potion 
>thing!  It was just her bit of fun!"
>
>
Charis smiles. Well, fun is the whole point here, isn't it really? 
But lets pretend we're dead serious, ok?


Well, what if Neville never actually heard any screaming? Oh, don't 
get me wrong here. The Longbottoms did scream all right. A lot. Just 
that Neville never heard. 


Right, lets set the scene. Thirteen years ago Mrs Lestrange and Co 
show up on the Longbottoms front doorstep. Or on the bank of a  a 
river of molten lava  where the family are enjoying  a relaxful 
picnic while fiery dragons flying overhead and a Tyranosaurus Rex 
ravages the country side. Whichever you prefer.


The DEs set on Mr Longbottom first, who was downstairs all alone 
grabbing a midnight snack from the fridge or off to practice his 
stunning abilities on the dragons. Whichever you prefer. The  DEs 
have a lot of fun. 


Well, all except Mrs Lestrange of course. She's getting worried. 
Frank's not blabbing. This is not working. She must do something. Mrs 
Lestrange calls one of her accomplices over: "Hey, you! Yeah, you! 
Nameless boy! Come over `ere. NOW!"


Whatsisname reluctantly lowers his wand and waddles over. 


"Now, you look here boy. This isn't no time for larks. Yes, I know 
you're having a good time but we've got business to do. Eh! Whasat? 
Look, when I talk you listen, buster! Now, go upstairs and get the 
wife and child. PROTO!


We—don't—know—who hurries off dithering nervously. He finds Mrs 
Longbottom and baby Neville and hauls them over.


Now, at this point what do you think Mrs Longbottom is doing? She's 
not screaming, no, nobody's been at her with Crucio yet. She's 
wailing is what she's doing, is what! She's waailing and pleading and 
wailing some more because she doesn't want to be tortured and she 
certainly doesn't want her baby to be tortured and she's got her 
husband before her tortured but she didn't want that either. And so, 
she's wailing. 

And, you see, that's all baby Neville hears. Clutched close to his 
mother's bosom his father's shrieks of pain are all drowned by his 
mother's terrified wails. And when Mrs Longbottom is wrenched from 
her child and subjected to the cruciatus herself, Neville still 
doesn't hear screams because this time he's too busy wailing himself.

So, see? That solves the matter! Of course people don't wail when in 
intense pain. That's not the way it works. We know that. But does 
Neville? No! He thinks people under the Cruciatus Curse wail because 
that's all he heard during his parents torture."

*        *        *

All this does raise another matter. I've got a question. Why don't 
all the wizards Voldemort and the DEs went after just * Disapparate*? 
Is this (no!) a FLINT? I mean * why*? Somebody comes at you with a 
wand, you see the word Imperio, or Crucio or Avada Kedavra or 
whatever forming on their lips and you just * sit there*! Even though 
you're a wizard? Even though you can excape like, poof!, that?

Now granted not all wizards can Apparate. Fine I accept that. But 
hey, don't tell me Frank Longbottom the famous Auror couldn't! Not 
James the Animagus surely! So, what's up?

*        *        *

Charis stops to thinks a bit. Huh. So Neville doesn't see * or* hear 
his parents torture. Hmm, somewhere along the way Charis seems to 
have dropped her Bang. But she's not going to say anything about that 
out loud.  Debbie almost looks like she might swallow this theory. 
Hmm, anyway,  all is well really. Neville is still horribly * 
scarred*. You know, psycologically. It's still pretty awful for him. 
So that's OK.


Ooh, in fact it's better than that! Wow, listen here Debbie: look, 
all this is really Big Bang because what is incessantly re--played in 
Neville's mind is not so much his parents torture, no. It's Neville's 
own horror and fear and overwhelming * misery* because of their 
torture. Neville doesn't just keep on getting blasts or a mere event, 
however traumatic that may be. Neville is constantly at the grip of 
all the awful emotions that flooded him during that event! That's 
bigger (isn't it?)


Debbie has now calmed down from her giggling fit considerably. In 
fact she looks quite sober and solemn. She's looking thoughtfully at 
the horison waaaay out over the waters of the Bay. Suddenly she turns 
to Charis and blurts out:

"I'll tell you a secret, Charis.  I believe in Memory Potions, too 
(though 
I'm still undecided on whether their effect is to enhance or 
suppress).  I 
believe in the Jobberknoll.  They *are* canon.  I even believe Frank 
Longbottom could have had one at home and that Snape could have shown 
up and 
killed it."


Charis shifts her feet uneasily. "You know what, Debbie. I believe in 
all that too. It really * is * Canon. But sometimes I just kinda 
worry, you know. That all these theories might just be a tad too far—
fetched. They're all brilliant (naturally) but maybe, well,  maybe 
Neville doesn't really have a Memory * anything*. Maybe all he has is 
bad memories and the knowledge of the ugly things that happened in 
his past" 

Debbie looks shocked.

"Oh, don't worry. It just a mood. It doesn't last long. And, say 
Debbie? Don't mention that to Eloise will you? She'll gloat and say * 
I'm* the one who's boring. Huh. As if!"

The sun sets on the Bay as Charis and Debbie return to the 
paddleboat. As thay clamber on board Debbie suggests amicably:

"How about the Jobberknoll with Wailing Insane Parents Variant?  With 
Memory 
Charm?  Or the Wailing Insane Parents with Memory Potion and Memory 
Charm?  
No?  Well then, perhaps I can just pull up on my own Memory Charm 
paddleboat, 
anchor it to yours, and share some refreshments while we spin out new 
Jobberknoll theories together."

"Sure!" says Charis reaching out for the box of sweeties that was 
lying around earlier.
"Apparently I finished all the Canary Creams though. Ton—Tongue 
Toffee?"

Charis Julia.