TBAY: MACHINGARMCHAIR
charisjulia
pollux46 at hotmail.com
Wed Jun 5 21:46:39 UTC 2002
No: HPFGUIDX 39437
And Cindy thought * she* was taking the Egg thing too far!
The sun is shining down on Theory Bay, small ripples are lapping
playfully at the sides of the MACHINGARMCHAIR paddleboat and a salty
smell infuses the air. The weather is very hot. Charis eyes the blue
green water wistfully. Ah, to ride free with the waves! But no. She
can't escape into the cool depths. She has to sit this out. Debbie is
still expounding on her opinions regarding Neville's SpellShocked or
otherwise state, what he witnessed and what he might remember and of
course what that blasted Egg invoked in him.
Charis sighs. This is embarassing, is what this is. She opens her
mouth trying to interrupt Debbie, but Debbie isn't listening. She
lifts her hand timidly into the air and that fails too. Finally
Charis shuffles as inconspicuously as possible up to Debbie, grabs
the edge of Debbie's robes and gives a light tug. Debbie finally
looks down. "Oh, Charis! Did you want something?" Charis glances
nervously towards the other side of the paddleboat where Cindy and
Eileen are peering at them curiously. "Err, somewhere private if
possible Debbie?"
Debbie and Charis clamber clumsily out of the paddleboat out onto dry
land. Debbie looks expectantly at Charis. She doesn't really like
being interrupted midspeech.
"Well? What do you want?"
Charis is looking sheepish. "Err, the thing is Debbie. . ."
"Yeeeeees?" says Debbie testily.
"The thing is, I, err, don't . . . well, in fact, what with one thing
and another and, err, as things stand an'all, err,. . . you're
probably right. About Neville. And the PTSD. And all those those
other things."
Debbie looks taken aback. She wasn't really expecting this.
"You see," Charis continues more nervously still, "I can't really
argue with you, because, <she gulps> because. . . well, to say the
truth, because I haven't really looked into matters that thouroughly"
(yes, that was definitely the best way to put it she thinks) She
continues hurridly: "You see I was't even present at the Symposium,
and I've never really looked into Memory Charms or Potions all that
much and" <she gulps again this is the hardest bit> "and I don't
know all that much about PTSD"
Debbie stares. Why, this is unbelievable. This is precious! Oh,
Charis has got herself into a fix! Debbie lifts her hand to her mouth
and begins to giggle.
Charis is visably affronted. Huh! What does Debbie mean by * that*!
Charis scowls.
"Oooh," taunts Debbie, "you don't even know what you're talking
about! Hee, hee, hee!"
Charis's face sets. Her eyes narrow.
"Oh, that's your attidude, is it? I didn't expect this from you.
Well, it's not true," she bellows, "Not True At All! All I meant was
that I'm, err, not an expert, yeah, that's all. . ."
But Debbie's still giggling gleefully.
"Oh, I'll show you! Gimme that!" She yanks Debbie's notes out of her
hands and starts perusing them muttering angrily ". . .don't know
what I'm talking about, I'll show her don't know what I'm talking
about. . ."
Suddenly her head flies up a triumphant look written all over it:
"Ha! What about this, huh? * This* can't be right:
>If you look at Neville's reaction to the Dementors,
>you'll notice that he was pale and has a higher voice than usual.
>But he
>wasn't shaking (Ron's comment seems to indicate that only Ginny
>shook). And
>he wasn't babbling nonsense like he did after Crouch's
>demonstration. No, he
>gave a cogent explanation of his reaction to the Dementor. I have
to
>conclude that the Dementor didn't give him that Dolby Digital
version at all.
> It took Crouch to do that for him. And why not? Because he didn't
get a
>Memory Potion. He got a Memory Charm. And the Dementor may have
made a
>little headway in dislodging those memories from their airtight
compartment
>in Neville's brain. But it didn't make enough headway, did it?
Because
>Neville wasn't unconscious. He wasn't even shaking.
>
Look, I'm not so sure about this bit at all. The Dementors didn't
manage to dislodge Neville's Memory Charm, but Crouch with a couple
of spiders did? But I thought that Dementors were "amongst the
foulist creatures that roam this earth." I thought that they drain
every one near them of hope, peace and happiness, that they make you
relive all your worst memories again and again pitilessly, till
you're souless and evil and, you know, all that jazz. And you're
telling me that one wizard with a wand can manage to drag up to the
conscious mind what a Dementor couldn't? All the Dementor gets is a
bit of feeble squeaking? I'm not convinced.
Ah, says Debbie smugly, but Crouch/Moody isn't all on his own here:
>But between the
>Dementor and Crouch/Moody's demonstration and the sound of the egg,
>Neville's
>subconscious magic may be beginning to pick away at the shield
>covering his
>memories."
>
Charis's mouth twiches. Hmmm, subconcious magic, huh? Boy, there
seems to be an epidemic of that around teenage boys lately. . .
Dimming lights, drudging up memories . . . Really interesting what
goes on in yound wizarding ids, I say.
Now, I could possibly buy this but: urr, <thinks of Bertha at the
hands of Voldemort> wouldn't it be * painful*? You know, not dealing
withyourissuesfromthe-- past painful, but writhingonthefloor---
screamingyourmouth-- off painful? Wouldn't it be a bit masochistic
of Neville, nevermind Neville's subconcious, to attempt it?
So, I'm not sure about this one.
No, the way I see it the only way out is if you assume that Neville
faces what the Dementor forced him to relive on a daily basis (due to
his Memory Potion) and that therefore he is more adept than Harry at
handling the ugly memory attack on the train. Otherwise, if you
assume that Neville simply doesn't have any bad memories to access
because of his Memory Charm, then you're pretty much condemming
Neville to horrific mindbreaking torture sometime in the future
books in order to break the Charm`cause if a Dementor couldn't do it
then that's about the only thing that can. (certainly a twitching
spider couldn't). And I Don't Like That Prospect.
But what about that spider, huh? Why does Neville react so badly to
it?
Debbie wrote:
"And if Neville doesn't have a visual image of his parents' torture
until
>Crouch shows him, how can he be suffering the effects of a Memory
Potion?
>Wasn't the supposed purpose of the potion to enable Neville to tell
what
>happened and who did it? Aside from the biggest problem, that I
can't
>believe Neville was old enough to provide meaningful information
(unless he
>was fingering someone he already knew, like Evil!Gran or Evil!Uncle
Algie or
>an Evil! friend of Frank's), there's no evidence that he had any
visual
>memory, or at least anything he could access before Crouch came
along. I
>think the evidence shows that the only visual he has is the one
Crouch
>provides for him, and that he still doesn't hear his parents
screaming.
>
>
Hmmm, well, like I said, I'm, err, no expert. (that * is* what I
said!). Do Memory Potions really preclude the possibility that
Neville really * didn't * have a visual image of his parents torture?
Maybe whoever gave him the potion miscalculated. Maybe they thought
Neville knew who did itor that he would know was he helped along
with a bit of memory enhancingbut Neville really didn't. So they
gave the poor kid the Potion and all in vain. They finally caught the
Four of course because of Moody's superb Auror work or (which is my
prefered version) because Avery succombed to the hounding of his
guilty conscience and squealed on the rest (which is how he avoided
Azkaban you see) . But poor Neville was left with earsplitting, err,
* sounds* renting his head apart eversince nevertheless.
So Neville prior to the spider incident indeed didn't have any visual
image of Cruciatus victums twiching hopelessly. That's why it's such
a shock for him, see?
Debbie's tapping her foot impatiently. But all this time Charis is
ignoring the central issue here. "What about the Egg?" she
asks. "What about Neville's supposed PTSD? I really took you to task
about that and you think you can distract me like that , just picking
insignificant holes elsewhere in my theory? Huh."
Charis remains calm and collected. (outwardly at least) Yes. About
that Egg. Charis rolls up her shirt sleaves.
Debbie doesn't buy my PTSD argument:
>"No, I don't think so. A sound may
>trigger the onset of PTSD symptoms - one that is associated with the
event.
>But the triggering event brings back the memory of the event
itself. And the
>context of the egg scene does not, IMO, support that conclusion.
>
>
Hmm, I don't know about that. I believe (after extensive study in
this field ;^) that PTSD affects different people in different ways.
I've read stories of men coming home on the train from the FWW and
seeing the logs on the railway as dead corpses. Others started
dancing jigs in the middle of the battlefield. I read one very
disturbing account of a soldier that took a hand grenade in each
hand, told his comrades he'd blow them up if they came near him and
ran towards the enemy rifle fire to throw the granades at them. He
was killed. Is it really necessary that the memory of the event
itself is relived?
But after all, how can we know what Neville is seeing or hearing at
that moment? The Egg's wails may have brought back the traumatic
experiences in full blast. Maybe Neville really * isn't * hearing
wails here at all. Maybe they're drowned out by the sound of the
screams in his head. We're not privy to his thoughts so we really
don't know.
>
>
>"Everyone hears the egg's screeching. Nobody's ever heard anything
like it
>before, so they begin guessing. Seamus says that it "sounded like a
>banshee." Neville next offers, "It was someone being tortured!"
Like
>Seamus, he's just trying to guess what the sound of the egg was.
>
Well, Seamus certainlly is simply making a suggestion here. But is
Neville? I don't think he's just trying to be helpful. After all what
Neville says is "it * was* someone being tortured" not "it sounded
like". Which to me suggests that torture * is* really what Neville is
hearing here. Not something that's just similar like Seamus is.
At this point Cindy, who's been eyeing those two suspiciously from
the paddleboat a little of coast leans over the side and calls
out "The wailing! Don't forget the wailing!"
>The first option is that Neville reacts the way he does because of
>>those dreaded visits to his parents at St. Mungos. What do his
>>parents likely *do* during those visits? Well, that depends on
>>whether you want a Bang or not.
>>
>>If you want a Bang (as I surely do), then they *wail*, that's what
>>they do!
>>
>>Debbie nods. "See? Even Cindy doesn't *really* buy that Memory
Potion
>thing! It was just her bit of fun!"
>
>
Charis smiles. Well, fun is the whole point here, isn't it really?
But lets pretend we're dead serious, ok?
Well, what if Neville never actually heard any screaming? Oh, don't
get me wrong here. The Longbottoms did scream all right. A lot. Just
that Neville never heard.
Right, lets set the scene. Thirteen years ago Mrs Lestrange and Co
show up on the Longbottoms front doorstep. Or on the bank of a a
river of molten lava where the family are enjoying a relaxful
picnic while fiery dragons flying overhead and a Tyranosaurus Rex
ravages the country side. Whichever you prefer.
The DEs set on Mr Longbottom first, who was downstairs all alone
grabbing a midnight snack from the fridge or off to practice his
stunning abilities on the dragons. Whichever you prefer. The DEs
have a lot of fun.
Well, all except Mrs Lestrange of course. She's getting worried.
Frank's not blabbing. This is not working. She must do something. Mrs
Lestrange calls one of her accomplices over: "Hey, you! Yeah, you!
Nameless boy! Come over `ere. NOW!"
Whatsisname reluctantly lowers his wand and waddles over.
"Now, you look here boy. This isn't no time for larks. Yes, I know
you're having a good time but we've got business to do. Eh! Whasat?
Look, when I talk you listen, buster! Now, go upstairs and get the
wife and child. PROTO!
Wedon'tknowwho hurries off dithering nervously. He finds Mrs
Longbottom and baby Neville and hauls them over.
Now, at this point what do you think Mrs Longbottom is doing? She's
not screaming, no, nobody's been at her with Crucio yet. She's
wailing is what she's doing, is what! She's waailing and pleading and
wailing some more because she doesn't want to be tortured and she
certainly doesn't want her baby to be tortured and she's got her
husband before her tortured but she didn't want that either. And so,
she's wailing.
And, you see, that's all baby Neville hears. Clutched close to his
mother's bosom his father's shrieks of pain are all drowned by his
mother's terrified wails. And when Mrs Longbottom is wrenched from
her child and subjected to the cruciatus herself, Neville still
doesn't hear screams because this time he's too busy wailing himself.
So, see? That solves the matter! Of course people don't wail when in
intense pain. That's not the way it works. We know that. But does
Neville? No! He thinks people under the Cruciatus Curse wail because
that's all he heard during his parents torture."
* * *
All this does raise another matter. I've got a question. Why don't
all the wizards Voldemort and the DEs went after just * Disapparate*?
Is this (no!) a FLINT? I mean * why*? Somebody comes at you with a
wand, you see the word Imperio, or Crucio or Avada Kedavra or
whatever forming on their lips and you just * sit there*! Even though
you're a wizard? Even though you can excape like, poof!, that?
Now granted not all wizards can Apparate. Fine I accept that. But
hey, don't tell me Frank Longbottom the famous Auror couldn't! Not
James the Animagus surely! So, what's up?
* * *
Charis stops to thinks a bit. Huh. So Neville doesn't see * or* hear
his parents torture. Hmm, somewhere along the way Charis seems to
have dropped her Bang. But she's not going to say anything about that
out loud. Debbie almost looks like she might swallow this theory.
Hmm, anyway, all is well really. Neville is still horribly *
scarred*. You know, psycologically. It's still pretty awful for him.
So that's OK.
Ooh, in fact it's better than that! Wow, listen here Debbie: look,
all this is really Big Bang because what is incessantly re--played in
Neville's mind is not so much his parents torture, no. It's Neville's
own horror and fear and overwhelming * misery* because of their
torture. Neville doesn't just keep on getting blasts or a mere event,
however traumatic that may be. Neville is constantly at the grip of
all the awful emotions that flooded him during that event! That's
bigger (isn't it?)
Debbie has now calmed down from her giggling fit considerably. In
fact she looks quite sober and solemn. She's looking thoughtfully at
the horison waaaay out over the waters of the Bay. Suddenly she turns
to Charis and blurts out:
"I'll tell you a secret, Charis. I believe in Memory Potions, too
(though
I'm still undecided on whether their effect is to enhance or
suppress). I
believe in the Jobberknoll. They *are* canon. I even believe Frank
Longbottom could have had one at home and that Snape could have shown
up and
killed it."
Charis shifts her feet uneasily. "You know what, Debbie. I believe in
all that too. It really * is * Canon. But sometimes I just kinda
worry, you know. That all these theories might just be a tad too far
fetched. They're all brilliant (naturally) but maybe, well, maybe
Neville doesn't really have a Memory * anything*. Maybe all he has is
bad memories and the knowledge of the ugly things that happened in
his past"
Debbie looks shocked.
"Oh, don't worry. It just a mood. It doesn't last long. And, say
Debbie? Don't mention that to Eloise will you? She'll gloat and say *
I'm* the one who's boring. Huh. As if!"
The sun sets on the Bay as Charis and Debbie return to the
paddleboat. As thay clamber on board Debbie suggests amicably:
"How about the Jobberknoll with Wailing Insane Parents Variant? With
Memory
Charm? Or the Wailing Insane Parents with Memory Potion and Memory
Charm?
No? Well then, perhaps I can just pull up on my own Memory Charm
paddleboat,
anchor it to yours, and share some refreshments while we spin out new
Jobberknoll theories together."
"Sure!" says Charis reaching out for the box of sweeties that was
lying around earlier.
"Apparently I finished all the Canary Creams though. TonTongue
Toffee?"
Charis Julia.
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