[HPforGrownups] More on Ron

[Laura Ingalls Huntley]

No: HPFGUIDX 39531

Oops..I meant to connect this to the last message..And, now that I think of it, I think I may have forgotten to put "Charles Engle said:" before the quotes..

Or maybe I did..*memory is gone, need more sleep*...either way, many apologies.


Susanne:
>Imo JKR has made it quite clear that this Krum figure 
>is a model, not a sentient being with feelings or a 
>voodoo doll, somehow connected to Krum himself.

I didn't mean to imply that the doll actually *was* Voodoo (for the life of me I can't remember the name for those dolls)..just that..I don't know...It seemed slightly twisted (in the bad way) to do that to something that not only *looks* like a real human being (and one you know) but also *moves*...*shivers* creepy. 


>Honestly, let's look at real life here! If JKR had had 
>Ron seek out Hermione for a calm and collected talk 
>about his feelings, I would have put the book aside 
>and looked for something else to read.

I thought I made it pretty clear that I knew this was unreasonable and unrealistic?  I just felt that the level of anger he had -- it disturbed me.


>And concerning my suggesting Ron should go and hurt 
>Krum himself instead of the toy (which I never did), I 
>meant that it is quite common for kids that age to 
>actually do stuff like that and I was proud of Ron 
>that he didn't confront Krum.

Mm...says who?  The only boys I know who would do that sort of thing were *very* ignorant "rednecks" from my old school...I understand that in more urban areas, fighting is alot more common and not confined to the less intelligent of the population...but the atmosphere at Hogwarts isn't like that IMO...

And anyway -- what's Ron going to do anyway?  "Hey, Krum..lay off my best friend who I do NOT like in a romantic way....I repeat, DO NOT LIKE."

It would have totally blown his cover for one -- for two, he would have had to *admit* that his issue with the Herm/Krum this *was* based on romantic interest in Hermione.

and BTW, I know you didn't mean to suggest that Ron *should* have gone and picked a fight with Krum... 


>Kids (and adults) do think hateful thoughts and that's
>perfectly alright as long as they realize it's not 
>alright to go and do hurtful things to their object of >hate.

This is true.  Yet mutilating the image of someone is just a step away from hurting the actual person, IMO.  It shows serious lack of control.


>I don't think there's anyone around in the whole world 
>who can claim they've never thought about how they 
>would like to get back at somebody who insulted them 
>or hurt their feelings (and yes, Ron's feelings are 
>hurt here, even if Krum doesn't have a clue that he's 
>partially the reason for it).

And this leads me to another topic...I really don't think Ron's feelings have been hurt by Krum at all..I mean, what's Krum to him?  It's Hermione who has "betrayed" him.  And yet, most (not all, I said, but most) of his anger seems directed at Krum *instead* of Hermione.  Why is this?

In my experience this sort of misdirection of anger means *bad* things.  Once, one of my friends cheated on her boyfriend (who is also my friend) with another girl..She didn't *think* of it as cheating at the time, but afterwards she felt horrible and told him about it.

Anyway, he was (understandably) upset, and he started to really, actively *hate* this other girl -- but things with my friend and him just went on as normal after a few days of him being quite put-off with her.  The thing was -- even though the brunt of his anger/feelings of betrayal/jealousy was focused on this other girl -- the one who was had *really* hurt him and made him angry was his girlfriend...but he couldn't be angry with her -- and that's what really ended their relationship a long while after everything had seemingly been forgotten...the whole misdirected anger thing..

I've seen other occasions where misdirected anger can lead to much more violent outcomes..it's generally not very healthy. 

>How do you know what they do in private?
>If Harry hadn't found the ripped off arm, nobody would 
>haveever known about it, either.

Well..my friends *here* at least..don't really get too much privacy.  If you're really upset and doing things like that here -- it's virtually impossible to keep it a secret.

>And Ron may have even regretted later what he did in a
>moment of fury, but we are not privy to his thoughts.

this is true.

>Anyway, I don't see Ron's reaction here as an abnormal one,
>in fact, to me it seems pretty common.
>I've worked with kids from age 3-17 in the past, and no, they
>were not juvenile delinquents :)

Well, um.  I respect your opinion.  However, *as* someone who is 17, I must disagree.  Kids with that kind of anger are generally BAD NEWS, no matter what kind of hormones are raging through their bodies. ^_^ 


>Seriously, don't you remember your childhood?
>Have you truly never been angry enough to storm off and
>throw something against the wall or yell at your parents and
>then regretted it right away?

Still in my childhood, actually.  *blushes* And..um...never really stormed off -- I generally stick around if I'm upset.  Never thrown anything against the wall because I was angry -- and if I yell at my mom (which isn't often, but it does happen ^_~) I'm usually never sorry -- cause, uh...if it comes to shouting, I generally *mean* it.  

>Even the calmest kids I know have their moments, especially
>when puberty starts to enter the picture.

I'm definitely no calm kid...and I've definitely been very, VERY upset with people before..but I've never "flown into a rage" or anything like that.

>And I think it would be unhealthy to teach children that
>even *thinking* angry thoughts is "bad".
>That can do some serious damage imo, because it's frankly
>impossible!

Very true.  But acting violently in private won't, IMO, help get that kind of poison out.  In my experience, you either have to wait those feelings out quietly (i.e. don't think about it...this takes experience, BTW) or get them off your chest TO someone. 

I was *completely* comfortable with Ron's actions toward Hermione during the Yule Ball -- he was a jerk, yes, and I wanted to smack him upside the head, but it didn't make me stop and go "whoa." like the whole doll thing did.

>While Ron has a temper, he doesn't go out of his way >toinsult for example Draco. He react when provoked, >butdoesn't seek out confrontations.

Yep ^_^.  I think I said it before...Ron usually doesn't do things that bother me.  Most of the time I think his temper is hilarious -- but that one thing just sort of upset me.

>He already is pretty insecure (the way I see it) and while
>he could try and do something about distinguishing himself,
>this isn't as easy as it sounds.

*Nods*  Plus, there's always the chance that whatever he *tries* hard at to do to distinguish himself isn't good enough -- which would "prove" without a doubt that *he* isn't good enough...it's very hard to risk that.

laura


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