TBAY: Dumbledore's death/Table of 13

[booklovinggirl]

No: HPFGUIDX 39577

Cindy:

> Now, it seems that almost everyone rates a dramatic and violent 
> death in the wizarding world.  Only poor Mrs. Crouch gets a death 
> from natural causes, and that is probably only because JKR couldn't 
> think of any other way to sell Mrs. Crouch's sacrifice to free her 
> son.  Even Voldemort's mother probably left this world screaming in 
> intense pain.  When people die in the wizarding world, things 
> explode, buildings collapse, their souls are ripped from their 
> bodies, they encounter an enormous serpent at the wrong time, there 
> are lights flashing and swishing sounds.  Wizarding death is almost 
> always *extremely* Bangy.
> In the face of all of that, JKR is planning a death for Dumbledore 
> from natural causes?  He's going to slowly deteriorate, scribbling 
> out his will whereby he carefully decides who should get his 
> Pensieve?  I can't get that scene to Bang.  Not even a little bit.

I can. WARNING: Can(n)on-less theory ahead. "I leave my Pensieve to 
Thomas Marvolo Riddle." An even more shocking idea: Harry glimpses 
Remus with the DE's. And in Dumbledore's will, it says: "I leave my 
Pensieve to Thomas Marvolo Riddle and ask my trusted spies, Severus 
Snape and Remus Lupin to deliver it to him."

Not that this would ever happen. Dumbledore, after all, doesn't trust 
Voldemort. One could argue that giving his Pensieve to Voldemort 
would be an attempt at trying to help Voldemort and bring him over to 
good, since Voldemort would see some of Dumbledore's wisdom through 
the Pensieve. But Voldemort is so corrupted that I have a hard time 
seeing even that. So this theory doesn't have any real canon behind 
it. But I rest my case. Dumbledore dying of natural causes *can* be 
Bangy. If JKR does it well, it even be more Bangy than anything 
involving lava and a catwalk. It just happens that lava and a catwalk 
happen to be easier to make Bangy than natural causes.

Arcum:

> Incidentally, (and off the topic of Sirus), one scene in PoA that 
> has been bothering me is on Christmas day, when they sit at the 
> common table for dinner. Trelawney makes a big deal about how 
> unlucky it is for 13 people to dine together. Traditionally, the 
> number 13 being unlucky dates to the last supper, and when we are 
> dealing with a scene on Christmas day, I have to wonder if a 
betrayal
> coming from one of the people at the table is being foreshadowed 
> here.
> 
> OTOH, it just occurred to me that Hermione betrays Harry about the 
> Firebolt on the next page, so it may not be that major. Still, that 
> seems minor for an analogy to Judas, so for reference, the people 
> at the table were: Dumbledore, McGonagall, Snape, Sprout, Flitwick, 
> Filch, Trelawney, Harry, Ron, Hermione, 2 extremely nervous first 
> year students(one of whom is named Derek), and a sullen-faced 
> Slytherin fifth year student.

PoA's Christmas dinner has been on my mind recently-what did the 
Christmas feast mean? Ron would unknowingly save Harry's life and 
vice-versa? (Getting up at the same time.) Trelawney would predict 
trouble? (She was unwilling to sit.) Cause trouble? (If she had left 
it would have remained 12.) Dumbledore would accidently nudge her 
into it? (Inviting her to sit down.)

I didn't however, link it to the Last Supper, and thank Arcum for 
seeing it. I reread the scene in PoA, looking for any incident of 
spilling something. (The first thing I thought of with Judas was 
spilling salt.) Nobody actually spilled, or it wasn't noted, anyway, 
but a few people were associated with food:

1. Dumbledore. "Derek, have you had any of these chipolatas? They're 
excellent." (PoA, American hardcover, page 230.)

Personally, I think this mention is innocent-this is not a very 
suspicious mention of food, and it's Dumbledore's only menton of it 
as well.

2. Derek. "The first year boy went furiously red on being addressed 
directly by Dumbledore and took the platter of sausages with 
trembling hands." (PoA, American hardcover, page 230.)

Trembling hands. Uh-oh. The only thing I can think of that may help 
Derek out of being the betrayer is that all we know of him, besides 
his name, is that he was a nervous first year at the PoA Christmas 
celebration. We don't even know his house. But if JKR decides she'll 
develope him a little more, I'll be very, very worried.

3. McGonagall. "We'll risk it, Sibyll." said Professor McGongall 
impatiently. "Do sit down, the turkey's getting cold." (PoA, American 
hardcover, page 228.) and "Tripe, Sibyll?" (PoA, American hardcover, 
page 229.)

Hmm. Two references here. And both of them are pretty antagonistic to 
Trelawney. Perhaps she's trying to keep Trelawney from predicting the 
trouble ahead? I don't go chasing after Flying Hedgehogs, and I 
usually don't say McGonagall is evil, but I do think this looks a 
little suspicious.

-Katherine

Information about Bangy-ness and Flying Hedgehogs can be found at 
Hypothetic Alley, located at 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin20Files/hypothe
ticalley.htm