The Spying Game, Resurrected Voldemort and Destiny v. Choice

[elfundeb at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 39722

First, let me add my voice to the chorus of thousands who are pleased to see 
Pip endorse Competent! Snape, even if he is a mean ugly schnook sometimes 
(well, most of the time).  

But I do have a lot of trouble with  the notion that Snape and/or Dumbledore 
would engineer a plan for Harry to create a life-debt for Peter Pettigrew for 
him to take to Voldemort.  As Dumbledore says later, in respect of that same 
life-debt: "The consequences of our actions are always so complicated, so 
diverse, that predicting the future is a very difficult business indeed."  
Suggesting to Harry that he might be glad that he saved Pettigrew's life is 
very different from attempting to engineer that result.  Too many things can 
go wrong, before and after the intended escape of Pettigrew, and Dumbledore 
and Snape cannot control the actions of anyone but themselves.  They can't 
even control Harry.  Indeed, finding Pettigrew on the map long after he had 
disappeared was just a bit of serendipity.  Dumbledore might be able to guess 
that Harry would spare Pettigrew given the chance, but so many other things 
might have happened, and almost did, even under your scenario, Pip. IMO, 
Dumbledore just gathers his intelligence and takes actions so that the other 
characters have the tools they need - to the extent such tools exist - to act 
on the choices he thinks they might make. 

It seems to me that 80 percent of Snape's actions, in the Shrieking Shack and 
in the hospital wing, are explainable by the simple fact that he despised 
Sirius and was intent, at all costs, on capturing Sirius himself.  For 
example:

Lupin is armed with a wand; he's the most immediate 
threat. He's also talking too much. Snape solves those problems very 
efficiently with his magical rope trick.

My take:  Lupin is a distraction to Snape, whose main object is Sirius; he is 
bound for convenience and can be dealt with later.

However, he doesn't solve the problem of Sirius in the same efficient 
manner. Instead he holds him off by pointing his wand at him.

He points his wand at Sirius and makes his threat (I assume the threat is 
AK).  He's been wanting to do this for a long time, but has no intention of 
actually killing him.  He just wants to make Sirius squirm for awhile. 

It's Hermione who takes action here: she suggests that Snape listens 
to their side of the story. And Snape tells her to shut up in no 
uncertain terms.  I'll discuss his very interesting terminology later 
on.

My  take:  Hermione distracts him from his mission, so he shuts her up in his 
usual fashion.  

Once Snape has successfully stopped Hermione he still makes no action 
to put restraints on Sirius. He could surely make the nasty series of 
threats he's about to make much more effectively if Sirius was also 
tied up and helpless [it's more fun, as well. You can take your 
time.:-) ]. 

It would be unsporting and cowardly for Snape to bind Sirius up and then 
threaten him.  Competent! Snape, accomplished dueler,  would not do any such 
thing.

Snape's first threat against Sirius is that he'll hand Sirius over to 
the Dementors; after the events in PoA everyone in the school knows 
how much Harry hates and fears Dementors. 

Aside from instant death, this is the worst threat he could make to Sirius.  
Snape is just going through his laundry list before he marches Sirius up to 
the castle, soul intact, so he can claim the credit.  And indeed, in his next 
breath Snape makes clear that he is going to bring Sirius in alive and well.

Note that at this point, in complete contrast to Snape's very 
effective action with Lupin and his checkmating of Sirius, Snape 
doesn't *do* anything to Harry. He just tells him to get out of the 
way. And no, it's not because he's got one hand full of rope and the 
other training his wand on Sirius Black. 

No, it's because he's not interested in Harry right now; he's just in the way 
of Snape's triumphant march back to the castle with Sirius.  Besides, Harry 
is a student.  Snape can blast teachers who are suspected criminals with 
spells.  But he can't just knock out a student.  (Remember what McGonagall 
tells Crouch/Moody the following year after the ferret incident.)   Instead, 
Snape tells him to get out of the way, and when he doesn't, he uses the same 
means he used in Snape's Grudge:  He insults James.  But, IMO, he never takes 
his eyes or his wand off Sirius.  He's probably only half looking at Harry, 
and he's not looking at Hermione or Ron at all.  That's how he can be 
blindsided by the Trio.

To discuss that rat...or, rather, to NOT discuss that rat. Sirius 
says "As long as this boy brings the rat up to the castle..." Snape 
promptly shifts the conversation away from rats by threatening that 
he doesn't need to take Black near the castle. Black's next line 
is "You - you've got to hear me out. The rat - look at the rat-" and 
again Snape promptly forces the conversation on; this time by 
switching to threats against Lupin. (PoA p.264)

Snape doesn't care about the rat.  He doesn't want exculpatory evidence.  He 
wants to bring Sirius up to the castle as his prisoner, and Lupin, too, as an 
extra bonus, to prove to Dumbledore that Snape was right about him all along.

And what does Dumbledore do? His normal style is to insist that Harry 
should tell his side of the story. Here he gets Fudge, Snape and 
Poppy Pomfrey out of the room before the conversation can go any 
further. Dumbledore doesn't want any embarrassing discussions about 
Pettigrew's rat transformations either (or about Sirius's innocence).  [snip]

The point is that neither Severus Snape or Albus Dumbledore would 
have any reason to shift the conversation so deliberately away from 
the word 'rat' unless they *both* knew that  'Peter-Pettigrew-is-
alive-and-he's-Scabbers'. 

Dumbledore cuts everyone off  because there's no time for explanations, if 
Harry and Hermione are going to free Sirius.  They have to use the 
Time-Turner before the Dementor arrives to perform the kiss on Sirius, 
because (and I realize here that there are those who believe differently, but 
I think this is what JKR intended) the Time-Turner can't be used to *change* 
history; it creates simultaneous histories for the users of the Time-Turner.  
So Dumbledore shuts everyone up so H&H can get on with it ASAP.

We know Harry's protection is somehow connected with Privet Drive, 
and relatives - probably blood relatives. It seems to be possible to 
risk the occasional (non-Hogwarts) week or two away from them 
provided he's being babysat by other wizards - but he is unlikely to 
survive long living with Sirius. Sirius Black, bless his little loyal 
doggy heart, has proven unable to protect *himself* against Death 
Eater machinations, let alone Harry.

Since Harry is obviously a vital part of Dumbledore's 'defeat 
Voldemort' plan this suggests that however much Dumbledore might 
believe in Black's innocence, he would have felt it more important to 
avoid having Harry's legal guardian insisting on removing Harry from 
the dreadful Dursley's. 

I can't see how exonerating Sirius would by itself put Harry in danger.  If, 
as is probably the case, Harry is only safe with the Dursleys or at Hogwarts, 
surely Sirius wouldn't insist on keeping him.  Unless he was evil, in which 
case his insistence would be a dead giveaway.

Furthermore, a highly disappointed and rather concussed Snape is 
really in no state to be making very fine judgement calls on the 
exact long-term effect he's having on Fudge. His performance gets 
them out of the hole they're in *right now*, and that is likely to be 
all he's thinking about.

But doesn't this support the surface reading that Snape, in his last 
conversation with Fudge, is simply overcome with anger at the realization 
that after Snape finally succeeded in obtaining his revenge for the Prank by 
capturing evil Sirius and handing him over, Sirius has escaped?

Eloise, commenting on the Resurrected Voldemort addenda:

I do find it interesting that he's resurrected via a *potion*. And I 
do wonder if Voldemort, believing Snape still loyal to himself, sent Wormtail 
to him for advice. And naturally Snape, now being on the side of right, 
engineered, along with   Dumbledore for there to be a fatal flaw (hence the 
gleam of triumph, when Dumbledore realised the plot had succeeded). If 
Wormtail had to believe Snape's continuing loyalty to Voldemort, that in 
itself would be a reason for Snape to ignore Sirius' pleas to 'look at the 
rat'.

This idea of Snape sending Pettigrew off with the fatal resurrection potion 
really intrigued me when I read it, though the *plan* assumes too much -  to 
use David's points -- starting with the idea that Voldemort would use Harry 
in the first place and ending with the idea that Voldemort would not kill 
him.  Unless, of course (thinking out loud here), Snape and Dumbledore knew 
Harry would survive because, say, Trelawney's first prediction was that the 
last Potter would kill Voldemort.   This would also accord with my personal 
view that (a) Voldemort as a noxious gas was immortal and could not be 
killed, (b) there were other ways besides the potion to resurrect him, and 
(c) the potion effectively anit-baptized Voldemort so that he lost his 
immortality, necessary so that Voldemort could be killed - and that Harry's 
blood was not necessary to accomplish this.  So perhaps they arranged for 
Pettigrew to take back the potion intending that Harry would continue to be 
protected, either at the Dursleys or at Hogwarts.  But how?  I can't figure 
this part out.  Or why Voldemort would still believe Snape is loyal to him 
after all the work Snape did in PS/SS to thwart Quirrell with Voldemort 
hiding in his turban.

Porphyria, on Harry and Job:

Job finds himself in the middle of a cosmic conspiracy which 
puts him into an impossible situation in order for the powers that be 
to work out their theology of blessedness and grace. Despite this, 
Job still acquits himself on account of the choices he makes under 
duress. Harry is in much the same situation with Dumbledore (and 
Snape). The end of PS/SS makes this explicit: Harry suspects that 
Dumbledore has set him up: letting him see Hagrid withdraw the 
package from the bank, giving him the invisibility cloak, letting him 
see the Mirror of Erised, expressing joy that he'd figured out who 
Nicolas Flamel was. None of this dilutes the fact that Harry made his 
own choices in the situation; his heroism and courage remains the 
same whether he's right or wrong about what Dumbledore wanted him to 
do.

I absolutely agree with all of this, except that I'm not convinced Dumbledore 
has really "set him up."  He chooses to have Hagrid perfom the double mission 
of collecting the Stone and getting Harry his school things, but Harry pays 
very little attention to the attempted theft until  (a) he reads the Daily 
Prophet article, (b) the foursome stumbles across Fluffy, (c) Hermione tells 
the others that Fluffy was obviously guarding something, and (d) nearly two 
months later, they decide that Snape is trying to steal it.  That's when 
Hagrid slips up and mentions Flamel (and he looks furious with himself).  I 
only after HRH tell Hagrid they're trying to figure out who Flamel is (and 
Hagrid tells Dumbledore) does Dumbledore decide that Harry's ready  to start 
receiving the tools he needs.  So he gives him the cloak, temporarily moves 
the Mirror (I have to assume that it was guarding the Stone until Christmas 
day).  

Basically, I think that rather than setting Harry up, Dumbledore figured out 
what kind of choices Harry was making and then gave him the tools he would 
need to have a chance to succeed.  Harry really stepped up to the plate 
himself in PS/SS; he didn't have to, although obviously the earlier Harry 
learned what he'll need to survive as a Voldemort target the better off he'd 
be.  In the event he did not, there were a lot of protective eyes watching 
and guarding Harry (Snape for example at the Quidditch match) until he's 
ready (or in the event he refuses) to go to bat for himself.  Harry may have 
a *destiny* but it's his to accept or reject.

Debbie, who needs to ditch that day-job and become a full-time LOON



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