The Spying Game

[bluesqueak]

No: HPFGUIDX 39776

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> wrote:

> > Pip wrote:
> > > >It's Hermione who takes action here: 
< < snip> > 

> > Debbie writes:
> > > My take: Hermione distracts him from his mission, so he 
> shuts her  up in his usual fashion. 
> > 
> > Pip replies:
> > Uh - I'm not actually willing to go through all four books right 
> now  [grin] but can anyone remember any other scene APART 
> from the Shack and the Hospital where Snape *screams* at 
> Hermoine in quite this way? 
> > He does NOT shut her up in his usual fashion. Also it's some 
> of the words he uses to shut her up which are fascinating.<<<
> 

Pippin replies:
> The words are fascinating because Rita Skeeter uses  the exact 
> same phrase: "Sit down you silly little girl, and don't talk about 
> things you don't understand." GoF 24, when Hermione starts 
> criticizing her about Ludo Bagman. 
> 
>   Is it possible that one argument the purebloods use to justify 
> their prejudice is that Muggleborns, with their talk of civil 
> rights and such, don't understand what measures are necessary 
> against  dark wizards? Not that they're right, but that does seem 
> to be what goes on.

Sorry, but I'll accept genuine Snape dialogue only - not other 
wizards using the same phrase in a different situation. [grin]

Seriously, what evidence do we have that Snape *is* pureblood, apart 
from his DE status? (Avoiding the half-vampire theory, which I rather 
like :-) ) And when has he shown evidence of prejudice against 
muggles? So far he's been strictly equal-opportunity horrible. He's 
far nastier to pure-blood Neville and wizard-born Harry than he is to 
Hermoine - Hermoine seems to get about the same level of insult as 
Ron (another pure-blood).

> 
> Snape resorts to screaming because  he doesn't have the 
> authority over her that he has in class, where he can silence her 
> by taking points (much more effective when backed up by peer 
> pressure) or simply refusing to recognize her.  Snape can't afford 
> much more delay 

<Snip>
> Then not only does Harry refuse to 
> understand how much danger he is in, this thirteen year old 
> muggleborn girl has the gall to act as   as if she knows more 
> than him, Severus Snape, ex-Death Eater, about how to deal with 
> dark wizards. 
> 
>   I think Snape  losing his temper is quite understandable. It's 
> not as if he hasn't been building up to it. He comes close to 
> losing it on an earlier occasion: in his office when  he's 
> questioning Harry. He doesn't get all the way to capital letters, 
> but he does snarl, spit, turn pale and speak in italics. <g> 
> 

Yes, but there he was questioning *Harry*. He gets angry (or acts 
angry) when questioning *Harry*. Is there any other scene where he's 
got beyond cold sarcasm with *Hermoine*?

>  Speaking of this scene,  if it is so absolutely vital that Harry 
> not learn about Scabbers until the time is ripe, for what purpose 
> does Snape risk questioning Lupin in front of Harry? Particularly 
> if he knows that Wormtail is the name Voldemort used for his 
> spy.
> 

Firstly, I don't say that Snape doesn't want *Harry* to learn about 
Scabbers until a certain point, what I say is that *Snape* doesn't 
want to be told about Scabbers in front of a lot of witnesses. If 
Snape knows about Scabbers, it is not going to be plausible that he'd 
let him escape.

Also, Snape doesn't really 'question' Lupin. He overrides what he's 
saying twice before gagging him. He probably does feel he needs to 
explain how he's turned up in the Shack; I mean, he can hardly 
say 'Dumbledore told me to keep a close eye on Harry, and I decided 
that also meant keeping a close eye on you, Lupin', can he? ;-)

Have you noticed Snape is described as being slightly breathless at 
the beginning of Chapter Nineteen? Is that because he found Harry's 
cloak and has then run as fast as possible down the tunnel? 

> I'm also not clear on the Dumbledore connection. Would 
> Dumbledore really have risked letting a werewolf wander loose  
> in the village? or let three children practice the incredibly 
difficult 
> and dangerous animagus spell on their own?

 <Snip> 

I assumed that the little Lupin excursions stopped after the 
Shrieking Shack incident, and that it was, likewise, after the 
Shrieking Shack incident that Dumbledore put a stag, a dog, a rat and 
a werewolf together and came up with the Maurauders [grin].

> > Pip says:
> > !!!!What the heck kind of spell is Pettigrew using that they 
never 
> > noticed a rat had lived that long!!!! [Presumably with a latin 
> word 
> > meaning 'Don't think too much about me' :-)]<<<

Pippin replies 
> Isn't it simpler to assume that  the  Weasleys just don't have the 
> expertise to tell a magical rat from a common one at sight? 
> Charlie might, but he's been in Romania for years. The elder 
> Weasleys probably assumed that Scabbers was the ratty 
> equivalent of a squib, long-lived but powerless. 

Good point, but I think it is a spell - I linked it in my mind with 
the fact that no one at Hogwarts ever seems to point out that Ron 
*shouldn't* have a rat. (Owls, cats or toads only)

> Pip says:
> > It depends on whether you think Lucius Malfoy's handing the 
> diary to  Ginny in CoS was Lucius acting under orders from 
> Voldemort or Lucius  acting on his own. , I would argue he was 
> acting under orders.<<
>
Pippin replies: 
> Why orders from Voldemort? Why not orders from the diary 
> itself? 

I don't know how connected the diary was to Voldemort himself. It 
could have been a means of communication between Lucius and 
Voldemort - there may well be several.

Lucius risks a lot in CoS. There's a small risk to Draco, there's the 
risk that the diary can be provably traced back to him, he does gets 
sacked as a governor because he's pulled in every threat he can think 
of to get Dumbledore out of the way - all this while he's being 
raided by the MoM for possession of Dark Arts materials.

 Why? What can he get from this apart from revenge against the 
Weasley's? Would revenge be worth blowing the position he's managed 
to regain in the Stalemate?

But as orders from Voldemort... Voldemort can gain a lot from the 
Chamber being opened. For a start, he could kill Harry Potter - which 
is more a Voldemort aim than a Malfoy aim.

            Pip