The Spying Game

[bluesqueak]

No: HPFGUIDX 39783

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., elfundeb at a... wrote:
> I said:
> 
> > shuts her  up in his 
> > usual fashion. 
> > 
>  Pip replied:
> 
> > > > Uh - I'm not actually willing to go through all four books 
right 
> > > now  [grin] but can anyone remember any other scene APART 
> > > from the Shack and the Hospital where Snape *screams* at 
> > > Hermoine in quite this way? 
> > > > He does NOT shut her up in his usual fashion. Also it's some 
> > > of the words he uses to shut her up which are fascinating.<<<
> > 
> Pippin responded:
> 
> > > Snape resorts to screaming because  he doesn't have the 
> > > authority over her that he has in class, where he can silence 
her 
> > > by taking points (much more effective when backed up by peer 
> > > pressure) or simply refusing to recognize her.  Snape can't 
afford 
> > > much more delay 
> > 
>        [snip]
> 
> > >   I think Snape  losing his temper is quite understandable. 
It's 
> > > not as if he hasn't been building up to it. He comes close to 
> > > losing it on an earlier occasion: in his office when  he's 
> > > questioning Harry. He doesn't get all the way to capital 
letters, 
> > > but he does snarl, spit, turn pale and speak in italics. <g>
> > > 
> > Pip responded:
> 
> > Yes, but there he was questioning *Harry*. He gets angry (or acts 
> > angry) when questioning *Harry*. Is there any other scene where 
he's 
> > got beyond cold sarcasm with *Hermoine*?
> > 

Debbie replies:
> I only checked PoA (and only two episodes, the Potions class where 
Hermione 
> gets in trouble for helping Neville with the Shrinking Solution and 
the DADA 
> class where Snape substitutes for Lupin) and while it's true that 
Snape did 
> not scream at Hermione in big capital letters, the scene in the 
Shrieking 
> Shack does follow the same pattern as the classroom episodes.
> 
> In the Potions class, Hermione offers to help Neville, and Snape 
cuts her off 
> coldly with the comment that he didn't ask her to show off.  
Hermione went 
> pink and shut up.

Errr... no, she doesn't. She helps Neville when he asks her by 
hissing instructions at him out of the side of her mouth. I guess 
this is an example of the way two people can read a scene in totally 
different ways  - because to me the point here is that Snape 
*doesn't* push it. He doesn't take House points off Gryffindor here - 
even though he shows later in the Boggart class that he was perfectly 
aware of what Hermione was doing.

> 
> In the DADA class, when Snape ascribes the class' lack of knowledge 
about 
> werewolves to Lupin's supposed shortcomings as a teacher, Hermione 
volunteers 
> werewolf information without being called on.  Snape accuses her of 
speaking 
> out of turn for the second time, and takes five points from 
Gryffindor.  
> Hermione is in tears.

This does have a similarity to the pattern in the Shrieking Shack; in 
more ways than one - Hermoine has completely missed Snape's point 
when he tells her he's the one taking the lesson. Snape is not 
interested in knowing about werewolves - he's interested in making 
the point to the class that they *don't* know about werewolves - as 
his comments immediately before indicate. As a teacher, he has to 
concentrate on the kids who don't know the subject, as well as the 
one super-bright child who knows *every* subject (of course, he does 
this in a Snapesque way, but as I've said before, I don't argue that 
Snape is *nice*).

> 
> In the Shrieking Shack, Snape begins with the same pattern, though 
he's 
> already seething with anger at Sirius.  Hermione suggests that 
Snape should 
> listen to Sirius and Lupin, and Snape reminds her she is out of 
bounds, in 
> the company of a convict, and should be quiet.  That's essentially 
what he 
> always tells her in class when she speaks out of turn, i.e. he 
tries to shut 
> her up in the usual fashion.  

Yup, he is trying to remind Hermoine that he has authority over her.

> 
> What's different here is what happens next.  Hermione does not get 
pink or 
> red or cry.  Instead, she keeps on pressing Snape.  "But if -- if 
there was a 
> mistake --" and it's only at this point that Snape loses it 
("looking quite 
> deranged").  He doesn't want to hear what they have to say.  He 
wants to 
> deliver his prisoner.  So he calls her stupid, and tells her not to 
talk 
> about what she does not understand.  He's trying to get her to shut 
up.  And 
> it works.


Again, we may have to agree to differ here. To me, Snape's choice of 
words shows that he is desperately trying to 'signal' Hermione that 
it is *really* important she shuts up this time and that she is, in 
fact, genuinely in the middle of something she doesn't understand. 
The fact that he resorts to screaming shows that her shutting up has 
a whole new level of importance. And  I would say that Dumbledore 
effectively supporting him later in the hospital scene when Snape 
seriously *screams* at Hermione (by not reprimanding Snape, or asking 
what Hermione has to say) shows the same thing - it's important 
Hermione doesn't explain about Pettigrew.

> 
> There's a lot Hermione doesn't understand, including the fact that 
Snape has 
> the revenge he wants in his grasp and he's not going to ruin it by 
hearing 
> his prisoners' story.  Moreover, this remark comes right after 
Hermione 
> suggests that there's been a mistake.  But to Snape, there can be 
no such 
> thing as a mistake, because that would take away his revenge.  So 
he tries to 
> tell her she doesn't understand.  To me, this explanation makes 
perfect sense.
> 
> Debbie, who needs sleep

I'd probably accept your explanatin if Snape only shut Hermione up in 
the Shrieking Shack. In the Hospital he thinks he's about to get his 
revenge, and Fudge is quite nicely convinced by the Confunded story. 
All he has to do, if he's only interested in revenge, is listen to 
her rattle on about rats, Animagi, and Pettigrew, shake his head 
sadly, and say 'Confunded, Minister. Black's done a very good job...' 


Pip (who needs to get to work)
> 
>