Time-Turner

[naamagatus]

No: HPFGUIDX 39808

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
 > 
> OK, on to the dizziness-inducing aspect of Time Turners, where I 
very possibly have no clue what I'm talking about.
> 
> Eloise wrote:
> 
> > >But again, I have
> > > the problem that the Dumbledore who sent them on their mission 
belongs to the world where Buckbeak *was* executed. If they are 
creating a simultaneous
> > > history, then that implies that there is a history where Sirius 
*is*
> > > kissed..... Doesn't it? ....genuine question, because I start 
to get
> > > confused
> > > when I think about this too long. ;-)
> 
> And Naama responded:
> 
> > > No, it doesn't create simultaneous histories. What happened in 
PoA is
> > > that Buckbeak had never been executed. Ever.
> 
> I can't agree with the statement "Buckbeak was never executed" 
unless it is paired with its paradoxical partner:  Buckbeak WAS 
executed.  Both realities are true.  Otherwise, what is the point of 
using a Time Turner?  Just to gain yourself a few extra hours each 
day?  But why would you even have to do that?  Hermione "already was" 
in both Muggle Studies and Divination (or whatever classes met at the 
same time).  If her using the Time Turner doesn't change anything, 
>why use it?

Because if she didn't use it, she wouldn't have already been in both 
lessons <g>. Time travel is paradoxical and I don't presume even 
to present the paradox coherently. I am sure that there are other, 
much better qualified people here who can do that . 
The thing is, the paradox really arises only when trying to wrap the 
mind around *changing* the past. I mean, what *does* happen if you 
kill yourself in the past?! Do you just "softly and suddenly" vanish 
away?
However, the way the story is told in PoA, Future!Harry and Hermione 
are not changing the past, they are creating it. And that's not 
really paradoxical (I think). 


<snip> 

> changes the way things were.  The second Harry and Hermione flip 
>over the Time Turner, they have changed things.  
<snip>

No. Because the past (and there is only one past) already includes 
the effect of their future selves. When Harry, Hermione and Ron had 
gone out (first time around) through the Hall, Future!Harry and 
Hermione are sitting in the cupboard. Whatever swirl the atoms were 
given by their arrival and their actions is happening around the 
under-the-cloak!trio. They are not aware of that, of course, but it 
is happening. 


Naama
who loves Eloise's posts and often agrees with her, but, alas, 
is forced by group rules to keep silent on that :-)