Snape theory/Quirrell/Diary plotting/Elkin's DE post

[grey_wolf_c]

No: HPFGUIDX 39843

Darrin Burnett wrote:
<snip Snape theory>
> Darrin Burnett --

Two particular things against the theory: one, canon is very much 
opposed to people changing houses. McGonnagall's first-years speech 
especificly claims that once sorted, the house will be like their 
family for the next seven years. I suppose that you could develop some 
sort of theory to get off the loophole, but I can't even begin to 
imagine how, and in any case you'll need quite substantioal canon to 
back it up. Go for it, though; I'm not the one that's going to stop you 
from developing a new theory. I love both defending and sinking them.

Second thing, I don't think Snape was ever a friend to James and co. 
Dumbledore has told Harry that the relaton Snape/James is very much 
like Harry/Draco, and if at some point in the past James and snape had 
been friends, the comparison would not stand.

Dave said:
> On another note -- Does it seem as strange to you as it does
> to me how easy it was for V to brainwash Q?
> 
> -- 
> Dave

It seems that possesion was a very powerfull capability indeed, and the 
fsact that Voldemort doesn't speak bad of it gives it a lot of credit 
("I only had still my power to enter other creatures bodies...", I 
think). It's some sort of Imperius that changes permanently the 
subject's thoughts, unless (I'd imagine) the subject is able to throw 
it off at the begining.

Then again, professor Quirrell has never strucked me as a man of 
action. We have been told that he was a bookworm who knew the theory 
well evough, but that he had left for Albania to get first hand 
experience. If he was possesed before he could get much of that 
experience, maybe he was too green to protect himself against 
Voldemort, and was easily brought down.


Nik's trun:
> Marina said:
> >I still think the events of CoS were planned by Diary!Voldemort, not
> >Vapor!Voldemort,
> 
> I have to agree with Marina. I unfortunately don't have my books here 
> with me, so I can't quote specific passages. If I correctly remember 
> Riddle's explanation to Harry about how he used Ginny, he says that 
> he was *very* interested in everything she had to say about Harry, 
> especially dealing with Voldemort's downfall. I had always assumed 
> that was because Diary!V had no knowledge of this. IIRC, Dumbledore 
> speculates that 16 yr old Tom must have captured an impression 
> (shadow? memory? What would you call that thing?) of himself in the 
> diary. I took this to mean that Diary!V had all the knowledge, 
> memories, etc. of Tom *up to that point in time*, but that he doesn't
> have any connection to Voldemort after he is stored in the diary.

That's one reason to think that the plan was *NOT* thought up by 
Diary!Voldemort, but by either Lucius himself or Vapor!Voldemort. The 
reason? Diary!V looks pretty much out of touch with the modern reality: 
doesn't know his future self had been beaten until Ginny tells him, 
etc. It looks like no-one had fed him any ink for quite a while. Thus, 
the plan couldn't have originated in him.

The other two have both reason to plan it. Pip defended the reaons 
VapourV had and IIRC, Marina defended Lucius reasons. From the MAGIC 
DISHWASHER PoV, it looks like the typical distraction Voldemort might 
use while his own plans, after the defeat over the PS, get back into 
gear. And I agree that, while Lucius had some things to win (which is 
why he finally did give the diary over to Ginny), there was a lot he 
could loose, too. I don't think he would like Draco turned into a nice 
garden statue, nor into the modern version of Moaning Myrtle, so even 
if the gains were good, he was risking something nearly as valuable as 
his neck (not to speak of all the things he ended up loosing in the 
scheme, including an influent position in the school board and a lot of 
money, objects and respect).

OTOH, I agree completely that Diary!Voldemort should have taken some 
time to read the 100 an eviloverlord should do. His most obvious error 
is right at the beggining, in fact:

7.When I've captured my adversary and he says, "Look, before you kill 
me, will you at least tell me what this is all about?" I'll say, "No." 
and shoot him. No, on second thought I'll shoot him then say "No."
(taken from http://www.eviloverlord.com without persmission, but I 
think I've earned it. I've given them publicity enough. Besides I'm an 
evil overlord myself: don't pay for what you can steal ;-) )

Finally, Elkins made a great post on why the DEs missed Harry in the 
graveyard scene. Since the rules of the board don't admit putting one 
liners just to say "I agree", I put it here at the end of my keep-up 
post. Great theory, Elkins. Count with me to defend it if anyone 
attacks it. They may be bad, or they may be gray, but DEs aren't 
stupid, and they're not going to shoot at a boy who reflects AK with 
his skin alone. For all they know, the only one who can now AK him is 
Voldemort himself, thanks to the blood bonding, and they're not going 
to make the experiment. They're not there to risk their necks for the 
greater cause, after all. That's what the *good* guys do.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf