So, why did Snape turn on Voldermort?

[darrin_burnett]

No: HPFGUIDX 39917

> darrin_burnett wrote:
> >
> > Regardless, Snape did turn on the V-Meister, and I'm curious as to
> > the theories why.
> 

Rochelle wrote:


> *g* So far, I've devoted one prologue plus nine chapters to 
explaining
> just that. (A link to the story is in my sig.) You might say I've 
given
> the matter some thought.

DB: I've read the first few chapters of your story, and I think the 
introduction of a specific religion -- and how Wizards who were 
Muggles deal with that phenomena -- is fascinating and well-done but 
I have to say I dislike the introduction of homosexuality into the 
fray.

Sexuality -- bisexuality, heterosexuality, or homosexuality -- has 
been very lightly touched in the world of HP. The kids are third-
years before we even get a hint of raging hormones and fourth-years 
before we get the kind of chaste bickering that comes with early 
sexuality.

Not to delve too deeply into forbidden topics like the movies, but 
this straying from reality in JKR's world is the main reason young 
Daniel Radcliffe probably will not be able to do all seven movies. 
Young boys change mostly between 11 and 12 in the real world, and 
having seen the 30-second teaser for the film CoS, it is obviously 
happening to Radcliffe.

Harry Potter, on the other hand, is nearly 14 before we get a sense 
of him hitting puberty.

To me, that's just one more of the rules JKR has introduced. She's 
taken us back to a time when the equivalent of American fifth- and 
sixth-graders were not exploring their sexuality. 

I rarely read fanfiction of any pop culture phenomena, and seeing 
such deviations from the established world always startles me.

As I said, the introduction of Judaism -- and I'm certain there are 
Irish Catholic and Protestant students going through similar changes -
- is interesting.
 
> <Re. theories as to why Snape left the DEs>
> >
> > 2) He was trying to save Lily, not James.
> > I've read some fan sites that speculate Snape was in love with 
Lily.
> > Go with that. He found out Volderoni was going after the Potters 
and
> > he didn't want Lily killed.
> 

Rochelle: 
> The "Snape was in love with Lily" theory's been touted so often and 
with
> such great enthusiasm that, for awhile, I assumed it was practically
> canon.  After all, I haven't read that many chat transcripts; I 
wondered
> it, maybe, JKR had said this herself and I missed it.  But thinking
> about it on my own, this idea DOES have some flaws.
> 
> 1) It's just too simple, obvious and common.  How many times have we
> seen this happen?  Even in the movie Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 
(fun
> movie, BTW, though not exactly great cinema), Shredder hated 
Splinter's
> master because -- you guessed it -- Shredder wanted his woman.  I've
> come to expect the unexpected from Harry Potter books.  Taking such 
a
> well-traveled road seems like a bit of a cop-out to me.
> 

DB: I am not well-versed in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle canon, I'm 
afraid. :) 

On the other hand, Snape's hatred has to come from somewhere, and 
unrequited love is as good a reason as any. All cliches start with 
truth.




> 2) Unless I'm missing something here, there is no evidence 
whatsoever
> that Snape had any feelings for Lily one way or the other.  In PoA,
> Remus made the off-handed guess that Snape was jealous of James's 
talent
> for Quidditch. [PoA, p.357 hardcover] Dumbledore said explicity in 
SS
> that Snape hated James because James saved his life [SS, p.300
> hardcover] Apparently, it hasn't crossed anyone's mind that Lily 
was a
> factor.  If it had, I don't see any reason to keep it a secret.
> 


DB: I agree with what I think you're saying here. I hardly see Snape 
as the type to be worrying much about Quidditch. And earlier on page 
300 of SS, Dumbledore says: "Well, they did rather detest each other. 
Not unlike yourself and Mr. Malfoy. And then, your father did 
something Snape could never forgive."

He saved Severus' life.

They hated each other prior to the Prank. 

Perhaps the hatred is as simple as Harry and Draco. They got off on 
the wrong foot, have naturally different ideas about wizardry in 
general, and are headed down different paths.

I dislike the idea of it being that simple, but... perhaps it could 
be.

> Going off on a bit of a tangent, my guess is that the reason for 
Snape's
> hatred of James is something that no one wants to think about: maybe
> James did something to deserve it.
> 
> Snape strikes me as the type who was best known as... well... the 
Class
> Freak, creepy and entirely too smart for his own good.  Even Sirius
> Black concedes that Snape is pretty bright, and Snape would have to 
be
> an oddball sort of genius to have known "more curses when he arrived
> than half the kids in seventh year" [GoF, p.531 hardcover].
> 
> I know from experience that weird, over-smart kids are NOT treated 
well
> by their classmates, especially the popular ones.  To me, it seems 
more
> than possible that the Marauders started this whole mess 
themselves, but
> no one wants to tell Harry that.  It's easier to let him keep his
> perfect image of his father instead of telling him that James and 
his
> friends could sometimes be bullies.
> 
> But back to the topic at hand.
> 


DB: I don't doubt that the Mauraders enjoyed picking on Snape, and 
the rest of the Slytherins, much the same way Ron, Hermione and Harry 
enjoy getting one over on Malfoy and his gang.

But, consider the time this was taking place. Voldermort was at the 
height of his powers. In GoF, years after Voldermort has disappeared, 
some unnamed ministry official calls for an investigation into Harry 
because he can talk to snakes. And this is in a time of peace.

Students with an unhealthy interest in the Dark Arts in Snape, Potter 
and the gang's time would seem to me to be treated not unlike Nazi 
sympathizers in France during the Occupation.

>From Snape's point of view, I'm sure he was persecuted unjustly. But 
I doubt seriously if three of the most popular characters in the 
series, James Potter, Sirius Black and Remus Lupin, are going to be 
found to be tyrannical bullies. 



> > 4) Dumbledore made Snape an offer he can't refuse
> 
> That ties into my own thoughts a bit, but not in quite the way 
you've
> postulated.
> 
> We know from canon that Snape DOES have a conscience.  Otherwise, he
> probably wouldn't have gone to so much trouble to save Harry's life 
in
> SS.  Since he has a conscience, he can feel guilt, and guilt can be 
an
> excellent motivator.
> 
> The way I rendered things, Snape became a Death Eater in the first 
place
> because of... well... a lot of things (it's a little complicated), 
but
> after he got in, he realized he'd made a mistake.  He didn't want to
> face up to this until the actions he performed in Voldemort's 
service
> finally became too much for his conscience to bear.  The offer that
> Dumbledore made to him was the chance to atone for his sins.
> 

DB: Also on this really informative SS/PS page 300, we have 
Dumbledore speculating that Snape saved Harry because he still felt 
he owed James and wanted to clear the books. 

To that end, he does have either a conscience or a highly developed 
sense of honor.

Fascinating stuff. I still stand by my one overriding theory -- Snape 
and Potter were friends at some point, either in first year or pre-
Hogwarts, and had a falling out. 

Darrin Burnett
-- Or perhaps Snape and Aunt Petunia were lovers once...