MAGIC DISHWASHER issues

[grey_wolf_c]

No: HPFGUIDX 39962

Joe wrote:
> I'm very attracted to the MAGIC DISHWASHER theory. I like the 
> way it complicates the notions of good and evil, and makes the 
> Potterverse so much more real than many fantasy lands. 

Welcome, then, to the group. That's one of the reasons I liked it so 
much, too. I also like the notion of the spy war coupled with the 
terrorist war.

> That said, I have a few problems.
> 
> First of all, one of the premises of the theory is that at the time 
> of the Shrieking Shack, if I recall correctly, 
> 1. Both Dumbeldore and Snape know that Pettigrew/Scabbers is 
> evil, and that he is an animagus.
> 2. Both Dumbeldore and Snape know that Sirius is an 
> animagus.
> 3. Dumbeldore has no idea whether or not Sirius is evil. He 
> knows that he was not the secret keeper, and did not betray the 
> Potters to Voldemort in that way, but is still unsure as to whether 
> he is/was a Death Eater.
> 4. Snape is utterly convinced that Sirius is evil.
> Given all this, I simply cannot understand why Dumbledore 
> would allow Sirius to run around as an animagus all year, 
> breaking into the school, slashing up paintings, endangering the 
> students. I think he would most certainly have told everybody in 
> power to be on the lookout for a big black dog.

They where trying to set up a situation where Harry could get 
life-debts to the two of them. I realised that yesterday (in chat, of 
all places!): Harry has styablished life-debt to both Peter AND Sirius. 
Dumbledore neeedn't know exactly which of the two was going to go 
running back to Voldemort, so he works so that in all of the cases the 
real traitor has the life-debt. Even in the case BOTH are traitors, and 
BOTH go running to Voldemort, V will have to choose for his flesh of 
the servant between two equally flawed products. I'd throw Lupin into 
the pattern too: Dumbledore was hoping to put Sirius and Lupin in the 
same cell, and then have Harry rescue them, but didn't expect Lupin to 
forget his potion, and Lupin transforming was another big problem with 
the plan. Well, two out of three ain't bad.

Back to your question, Dumbledore did stablish security measures that 
should've stopped Sirius, except for the big holes he didn't know 
about. Telling everyone to look for a big, black dog is very difficult, 
and redundant. The people guarding the school were going to stop 
everything from roaming (except maybe crookshanks, thinking it Filch's 
cat).
 
> The responses to this question that have been suggested so far 
> operate on the assumption that Dumbledore knew Sirius was 
> innocent once he learned that Pettigrew was guilty. But I don't 
> see any evidence of this. Also, that wasn't the original theory. 
> Has the theory changed? What is the reasoning behind the 
> switch?

See above. I have been patching the thery quite a bit lately to make it 
fit the details, and make it more belivable, so I'm not sure what 
you're refering to here. But if Dumbledore has been working on the 
assumption "one of the three marauders left is a traitor", things fit.

> Second, while I personally love the idea of Grey Dumbledore, I 
> feel that this is explicitly denied by canon:

It looks like it, too. But when I say that you can participate in a spy 
game while remaining White, my credibility gets hurt, so I normally 
refrain from saying it. Anyway, saying that Dumbledore is White because 
he's called Albus is metathinking. And Mcgonagall could have the wrong 
idea of Dumbledore, after all. But no, even if do use the Dumbkedore 
the Grey figure, that doesn't make him less good to my eyes.

<snip Dumbledore the white> 
> Or are we suggesting that he was white in VWI and time, 
> coupled with a victory that was neither permanent nor complete, 
> has sullied is noble spirit? 

No, I never said or even implied that. Destroying Grindewald must have 
taken some not-so-white tricks, too. But using a machine gun doesn't 
nake you evil, if it's to protect someone else. As long as he doesn't 
use Dark Arts, I think Dumbledore's soul will be clean.

> On the other hand, I'd like to offer a theory in favor of MAGIC 
> DISHWASHER.
> <snip new theory about getting the potion to Voldemort>
> 
> Joe, who is getting exhausted from this crazy posting wave.

I like it, if we expand "Peter" to mean "any Voldemort spy". Maybe they 
had that little conversation two or three times: in front of Lupin 
(asking for the oppinion of the DADA teacher) and Peter (maybe while 
discussing with Hagrid?). I cannot fanthom a way to get it to Sirius, 
but Dumbledore and Snape are more intelligent than I am. Maybe they 
left a note where he could find it.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf