Ethnicity, Location, Tarot

[A. Vulgarweed]

No: HPFGUIDX 40362

Nik wrote:

>I grew up/live in rural Indiana = *very* white. I assumed that the Patils
>didn't have English names, but I wasn't immediately aware if they were taken
>>from a particular ethnic group or if they were just interesting names that
>JKR had come up with.
>
Depends on where you are in the US (and I guess, how much reading you do
and stuff): I grew up in a really white rural area too but I live in a big
city with a lot of immigrant communities now, and between the name "Patil"
(which is common here, though often spelled "Patel") and the Hindu-goddess
names, that's all the information I needed to know that Padma & Parvati are
Indian. I also didn't need anything but her name to know that Cho Chang is
Asian/Oriental.

Dean Thomas and Angelina Johnson, though, I *would* need to be told they
were black if that was important to the story, because their names don't
convey that information (Johnson is a very common name among both whites
and blacks here). I mean, Hannah Abbot or Susan Bones or Morag McDougal or
Malcolm Baddock or whoever could be black also for all I know--I don't
think it says anywhere that they're _not_. So in a way the reader is free
to imagine Hogwarts as pasty-white or as diverse as they wish: we're not
given much information on _everybody's_ ethnicity, and plenty of minor
characters get no physical description at all.

But I have noticed that I have
>different assumptions on some of the details. For example - the location of
>Hogwarts. Is it generally accepted that the school is located in Scotland,
>or is that just a proposed theory? I'll admit that it never even occurred to
>me that the school could be located anywhere other than England. Of course,
>that could also have to do with the fact that I can never keep straight the
>differences between England/UK/Britain/British Isles etc.

The descriptions of the surroundings fit Scotland very well (and my reading
was influenced by knowing JKR lives in Edinburgh), but more to the point it
would pretty much have to be in Scotland, for the reasons mentioned about
the time it takes the Hogwarts Express to get there...to people used to the
vast North American continent, Great Britain is a really small landmass.
Scotland is about the northern third of the island. There's no way you can
be on a train that long from London and still be in England, unless the
train is really really really slow. ANYWAY, from what I know as a Yank (who
has been to Scotland and Ireland, but not England) it goes like this: Great
Britain is the big island, and Scotland, England, and Wales are all parts
of it. The United Kingdom is  a *political* entity that includes England,
Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland--but NOT the Republic of Ireland,
which is the island of Ireland minus six counties in the north. The British
Isles is a *geographical* entity for this cluster of islands separated from
the European landmass, which _does_ include all of Ireland, as well as of
course all the little islands like the Orkneys, Shetlands, Hebrides, etc.
(which are part of Scotland and, hence, the UK). Sounds more complicated
than it is: looking at a map makes it easier.
>

and Pam writes:
>
 When I replied that I didn't think
>there were any Americans at Hogwarts, African or otherwise, but there
>may well be some black students as well as students of Asian or
>Oriental descent, the original poster had the temerity to suggest
>that the correct term for a black person - even in Britain - was
>African American!

I would love to hear what a black person from the UK would have to say
about *that*. (I do know that it doesn't go over very well in Canada.)
Geez, you'd think someone who was all sensitive to this mult-culti stuff
would know that Americans' careless and sloppy cultural imperialism is a
big drag as far as the whole rest of the world is concerned.

and Eric wrote:

>I have a friend who is a serious Tarot-card collector.  I asked her if there
>was any such thing as a Harry Potter Tarot, since she would know.  (She
>deals in tarot decks to other collectors, among other things.)  She said
>that such a thing had been brought up to JKRowling's people by the biggest
>Tarot-publisher, and it turned out that there were so many conditions
>attached to it that the Tarot people basically backed out of it.
>
>I can think of a lot of things that would go well in a HP Tarot,
>though...let me see...Major Arcana...
>
>Harry Potter (natch!) as the Magician
>Hagrid as the Hermit
>Voldemort as Death
>Cedric and Cho (or Arthur and Molly Weasley, or Harry's parents) as the
>Lovers
>James Potter as Strength
>MoM Cornelius Fudge as the Hierophant
>Professor McGonagall as the Empress
>Dumbledore as the Emperor
>
>and so on, and so on...
>
There IS an unofficial one on the Web....do not, alas have the URL, but I
remember a domain name involving "padfoot.uk" so you might try to Google
it. If anyone knows how to find it easily, please speak up! I have major
quibbles with some of the attributions, and IMO it really falls apart in
the Minor Arcana. (I don't agree with their version of the Houses/Suits
correspondences, I think the elementals are all off). On the plus side the
artwork is by a fanartist named Laura who has a lovely, distinctive,
expressive style, and I think some of the Major Arcana attributions are
inspired. HEre's what I remember:

The Fool (innocence, beginning of journey, the protagonist): Harry Potter
The Magician (power, mastery): Mad-Eye Moody.
The Emperor (worldly power, fatherhood, benevolent ruler): Percy Weasley (I
disagree. I say Arthur, and Molly of course as the Empress)
The High Priestess: I think this was Fawkes, who I believe is male, but
this card does represent inner knowledge and rebirth so it's not entirely
off-base. I'd ask for a drawing of J.K. Rowling here, meself.
The Hierophant (keeping of tradition): the Malfoy family.
The Lovers (alchemical union, reconciliation of opposites): Ron Weasley and
Hermione Granger
The Chariot (forward motion, action): Harry again, catching Snitch.
The Hermit: Hagrid
Strength: Lily Potter (shown holding baby Harry with a terrible green light
all around her)
The Hanged Man (sacrifice for the greater good, possibly undeserved
punishment): Sirius Black
Death (transformation, turning point, hard choices): Severus Snape
The Devil (greed, blindness, enslavement to the material): Lord Voldemort
(shown w/rat Wormtail at his feet)
Justice: Minerva McGonagall (showing sternly breaking up a hex-match
between Harry and Draco)
The Moon (Changeability, illusion, the wild self): Remus Lupin of course!
The Star (Hope): Albus Dumbledore (shown looking especially twinkly)
Temperance (balance): Fred and George Weasley, of all people!

May be a bit OT, but I think if we can analyze through a Jungian lens,
study of this particular quite useful set of archetypes makes sense as
well. (full disclosure: I was a professional Tarot reader briefly, still
use 'em a lot in meditation and writing--they work beautifully as a pattern
for working with the unconscious mind.)

AV