Neville and the Canary Creams

[moongirlk]

No: HPFGUIDX 36225

Elkins, in response to my questions about Neville and the canary 
creams: 

> I did see it as rather mean, though, mainly because of the way that 
> Fred gave Neville reassurance that the custard creams really *were* 
> safe.  I didn't like that much.

But they were safe!  They weren't stuffed with dragon-peppers (which 
might possibly be because I just made them up) or anything.  They 
turned him into a canary for a few seconds, but it wasn't harmful.  
I'll explain my feelings on that below.
> 
> Then, I admit that I'm not a big fan of practical jokes in general, 
> and of food tampering in particular, so I'm probably biased.  
<snip>  That bit in PoA about the Twins 
> slipping beetles into Bill's soup...ugh.  Not funny. 

Now that I admit to finding truly disgusting (due to a phobia 
regarding bugs in general and bugs with a hard outer shell in 
particular).  Some guys of my acquaintance have told me that that's 
not an uncommmon kind of trick among brothers, but all I could think 
was, well, I couldn't really think at all because I was busy trying 
to control my gag reflex.  I don't think the Canary Creams are the 
same sort of joke though.  I think of them along the same lines as 
the Muggle disappearing ink trick, where a stain shows up briefly, 
but goes away leaving no ill effects.

> And Neville would seem to feel much the same way.  When Fred tells 
> Hermione that "it's the custard creams you've got to watch--" while 
> Neville has just bit into one of the custard creams, he immediately 
> chokes and spits it out. To my mind, that indicates quite clearly 
> that whatever the twins have done to the sweets, he *really* wants 
> absolutely nothing to do with it.

I thought it was because he was afraid of a prank that involved 
making the food *icky*.  You know, like the bug thing ::shudders::.  

> And then Fred reassures them that no, really, the custard creams 
are 
> fine.  Just to trick him into eating one.
> 
> And...oh, I don't know.  That really does seem mean to me.  
Springing 
> booby-trapped sweets on people isn't my idea of a funny joke to 
begin 
> with, admittedly, but I still find that far more acceptable than 
> reassuring someone who *obviously* finds the idea dismaying and 
> distasteful that their food has *not* been tampered with -- when in
> fact it has.  
> 
> I also see a significant difference between simply springing a joke 
> on someone (when you are, after all, a notorious prankster), and 
> convincing someone to trust you...only to then spring a joke on 
him.  
> The latter is meaner, to my mind, because it forces the victim to 
> look doubly the fool: first for being trusting enough to swallow 
the 
> trick to begin with; and then a second time, for being naive enough 
> to trust in the prankster's deceitful masquerade of sincerity.

I admit I figure as long as the canary creams taste good, and there's 
no pain in the transfiguration, nor any lingering effects, there's no 
harm, no foul.  But still, I really got the idea that Neville's 
initial reaction was in fear of some sort of yuck-factor, and that if 
he was really terribly worried about being pranked or really wanted 
absolutely nothing to do with the Weasley Wizard Wheezes, he'd have 
discreetly dropped the cream in the nearest waste can.  I get that 
Neville's forgetful and that he's having a hard time tapping into the 
talent that I just *know* is in him, but I don't think he's dumb or 
anything.  He's known Fred and George for awhile now.  Also, I don't 
really feel like being the subject of a prank when the prankees are 
notorious can possibly make one look all that foolish - everyone in 
that room had probably been had by Fred and George at one point or 
another, so there's no shame in it.  Plus, I like to imagine that 
while Harry was intent on his own stuff, other students were then 
rushing the table to try the canary creams themselves.  I know I 
would have wanted to try it.

> Yes.  All of my buffoonery over his backstory aside, I, too, love 
> Neville.  I was a weird little semi-autistic space-cadet of a child 
> myself, and so I tend to identify very deeply with him.  

Hey - high-five! Me too!

I had said:

> > When I read the bit about the canary cream, I thought it was 
great 
> > because while Hermione treats Neville with great kindness, it 
also 
> > seems rather condescending to me. 
> 
Elkins, my fellow space cadet, responded:

> Really?  Oh, I'm *so* glad that someone else feels that way!  I was 
> beginning to think that was just me.
> 
> Yes.  Hermione is kind to him, and of course he appreciates that, 
> because really, she's the only one who is, and he doesn't have any 
> other friends.  But at the same time, I do see a certain 
> condescension in her treatment of Neville.  When she approaches him 
> after Fake Moody's DADA class, for example, that particular way 
that 
> she explains to Ron and Harry "Neville," before marching 
purposefully 
> towards him -- as if he's just the Cause of the Week, you know, or 
a 
> chore that must be taken care of

What's more, she's been treating him that way since the very first 
time we saw her, when she was carting him around searching for his 
toad.  While I think Hermione has grown immensely over the course of 
the books, and I consider her to be nearly too good as a character, 
this is one of the flaws I think has stayed with her.  She has kind 
impulses, but they don't always come off properly because of the way 
she goes about things.  I think that's at the heart of the Binky 
discussion that's been going on.  

 -- I don't think that Neville is at 
> all obtuse when it comes to interpersonal matters.  He's well aware 
> of the condescension.  

I totally agree, and that's in part why I feel the way I do about the 
canary cream.  I don't think he took Fred saying it was safe to eat 
it as meaning that there was no chance that something wacky might 
happen, but simply that there was nothing harmful about them.

And frankly, it really didn't surprise me that 
> he chose to try to gloss over his distress.  I don't know if 
Neville 
> would want to confide his family history in *anyone* at this point 
in 
> his life, but even he did, I still don't think he'd be willing to 
> talk to Hermione about it.  She's shown him kindness and support, 
but 
> not much of the type of respect that inspires personal revelation, 
> IMO.

Again I agree.  Neville's really quite tough under all that 
ineffetuality.  He faces "facts" about himself (I put facts in quotes 
because I don't think all of those facts are going to continue to be 
true throughout the course of the story), and yet doesn't let his 
supposed limitations stop him from striving.  At this point, though, 
he doesn't have anyone at Hogwarts he can really trust emotionally.  
Hermione is the last person I'd confide all my personal tragedies and 
insecurities in if I were Neville, for fear that she would either try 
to fix everything or start lecturing me on how to feel, because 
that's the sort of relationship she's had with him thus far.

> I'll even let you in on a little secret here.  I thought that 
Lupin's 
> oh-so-blatant "let's bolster Neville's confidence" was kind of 
> condescending too, to tell you the truth.  And you *know* how much 
I 
> adore Lupin!

I can see what you mean here, but I think this was more an 
opportunistic thing than a thought-out plan to bolster his 
confidence.  The opportunity arose and Lupin seized it.  Maybe it 
would have been better if he hadn't put Neville first in line against 
the boggart, but it did serve to prove once and for all that Neville 
is capable even in the face of great fear, so while I conceed that 
there was a bit of pity there, I think the results were worth it.
 
> I agree that the incident shows Neville in a very good light.  It 
> does show him to be a good sport, and to possess a certain 
generosity 
> of spirit.  I don't know if I really believe that Neville thought 
the 
> joke itself all that "good," though.  I didn't get the impression 
> that he liked the idea of the tampered sweets at *all.*  And as he 
> couldn't himself *see* what he looked like as a canary, it strikes 
me 
> as unlikely that the metamorphosis could possibly have been nearly 
as 
> amusing for him as it was for everyone else.

I don't think it's necessary to see yourself as a canary to get a 
kick out of the idea that for a moment there you *were* (or looked 
like, I suppose) a canary.  But then, I have to admit I think 
practical jokes are funny as long as the jokes don't harm or stain or 
hurt in any way.  I used to be slightly paranoid and would assume 
that a joke was meant to make me look stupid, but as I got to know 
one of the jokers I'd previously mistrusted and was let in on a prank 
from the joker's perspective, I came to realize there really was no 
ill-intent on his part, that he in fact tried to think up pranks that 
would make the other person laugh.  Now I tend to assume this to be 
true unless proven otherwise, and I even like to be the pranker with 
a few people.  I'm not very good at it (as is evidenced by my 
miserably failed attempt this morning to prank my supervisor), but I 
appreciate those who are.

> But of course, once one has become the target of a practical joke, 
> the best course generally is to laugh along with everyone else, 
even 
> if one didn't personally find the joke all that amusing.  After 
all, 
> assuming that there was no malice intended, and nothing at all 
> personal about the joke, then why put a damper on everyone else's 
> fun by refusing to laugh along with them?

But I went one further?  I figured that Neville did assume there was 
nothing personal and no harm done or intended, and that he actually 
appreciated the joke.

kimberly
who likes a good joke, surprise or scare now and then, as long as it 
doesn't involve bugs