Avery WAS Re: Real Wizards Don't Apologize & Fourth Man (WAS Crouch Jr and )

[lucky_kari]

No: HPFGUIDX 36583

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at c...> wrote:

> My goodness!  What's going on here?  Are you guys starting to -- 
> well, there's just no gentle way to say it -- go *Soft* on me?  
What 
> am I hearing?  Sympathy for Pettigrew?  Doubt about Crouch Jr.'s 
> guilt?  What next – Tom Riddle was just misunderstood?

Tom Riddle wasn't misunderstood... but you have to look at the 
situation from his point of view if you want to understand how he 
went so wrong.

But, didn't the Fourth Man kayak crew come together after a battle 
between the Tough like Cindy and the Bleeding Hearts, like myself and 
Elkins. Didn't we discover in the end that the Tough and the Bleeding 
Hearts can both revel in things like bloody ambushes? 

Now, truth be told, if this was the wizarding world, you'd probably 
be cheering on Crouch Sr., and I'd be misguidedly lobbying for the 
release of Avery....... JK

> No, I don't think I can sign on for the Pity Party that seems to be 
> forming here.  Pettigrew was Evil.  Evil, evil and really evil.  He 
> scurried off before he got what he deserved.  

Yeah, he's evil. So was Grima Wormtongue. But they're both miserable, 
so I feel sorry for them. 

> You see, Fourth Man with Remorse is just, well . . . forgive me, 
> but . . . it's kinda lame.  I mean, how can Avery *possibly* have 
> remorse?  He apparated to the graveyard, for heaven's sake.  And as 
I 
> established above, no one in the wizarding world has any idea what 
> proper remorse is.  Remorse is *not* returning to the side of Evil 
> the first time you get a Dark Mark hot flash, throwing yourself to 
> the ground to beg forgiveness for not being Evil enough for the 
last 
> decade, tolerating a few seconds of Crucio, and then continuing 
right 
> along in your Evil old ways.  No, Fourth Man with Remorse needs to 
be 
> buried at sea.  He is just excess weight slowing down the kayak.

No, I stand by Fourth Man with Remorse. Remorse is not incompatible 
with ending up with Voldemort again. In fact, if you believe 
us "Remorse" people, that's Avery's defining characteristic. He keeps 
getting out of it, and then being pulled back in. He probably hates 
himself, and keeps quavering between continuing his evil ways and 
turning himself in. And he does seem guilty when he's talking to 
Voldemort, no?

But then, I figure you're not buying into Elkins story that he 
avoided his former DE friends like the plague for years, sends his 
children to Beauxbatons etc. 

> Elkins again:
> 
> > There's even a "Fourth Man With Innocence," in which Avery, 
although
> > he was indeed a Death Eater, was nonetheless utterly innocent of 
> any 
> > complicity at all in the Longbottom Affair and was arrested and 
> > convicted solely on the basis of guilt by association with the 
> > Lestranges.  
> 
> I beg your pardon?  Do you mean that Avery is innocent because he 
> couldn't muster the strength to actually aim his own wand directly 
at 
> Frank Longbottom? 

Elkins' variety had Avery playing bridge at the Lestranges with 
Crouch Jr. when Moody came in. No-one has taken her up on the kindly 
offer. 

I like you're idea of Avery breaking down during the torture scene, 
actually. Still, he was involved. Guilty as sin. Just with a little 
remorse. 
> Elkins again:
> 
> > Avery himself, although he sometimes shares the kayak with us, 
> > doesn't get to express his own opinion on the matter, because 
he's 
> > just an in-jokey parody of somebody else's fictional character, 
and 
> > so doesn't count.  ;^)
> 
> Uh.  No.  I specifically recall kicking Avery out of the kayak 
weeks 
> ago, and I don't even see bubbles marking the spot where he went 
> down.  He sank like a stone. I think his guilty conscience weighed 
> him down.  

If you'll check back, Elkins screamed and dived down into the water, 
dragged Avery back, hugged him, and wrapped him in blankets, or 
something like that. And don't you dare touch him again. We actually 
LIKE him! 

> Now, if Jamie is brave enough to join us, we're going to have to 
give 
> the kayak to someone else and move up to an inflatable 8-person 
raft 
> with cupholders and an ice chest filled with cold Mimosas.  I seem 
to 
> have some of those Spam cubes left over from the last party on the 
> Destroyer, too.  Jake didn't seem to care for them.

Bring on the raft!

BTW, Cindy, don't you think Fourth Man with Remorse is so much more 
BIG BANGISH? You're no frills Fourth Man is just a cold fact of 
logic. Ours has pathos, bathos, and heart-wrenching scenes. 

> 
> Cindy (noting that Arthur Weasley apologizes for blasting the 
> Dursleys' living room to bits, but they're just Muggles so he 
> probably figured no wizards outside the family would hear about it)

LOL!

Eileen