Remus/Sirius Apology (was: Real Wizards Don't Apologize)

[kiricat2001]

No: HPFGUIDX 36866

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "ssk7882" <skelkins at a...> wrote:

> Cindy later qualified her rant, by adding:
> 
> > I overlooked perhaps the biggest, most important apology in the 
books. In my favorite scene 
> > in my favorite book, no less:
> 
> > "Forgive me, Remus," said Black.
> > "Not at all, Padfoot, old friend," said Lupin, who was now 
rolling 
> > up his sleeves. "And will you, in turn, forgive me for believing 
> > you were the spy?"
 

> Ah, yes.  That certainly *was* a sincere and heart-felt plea for 
> forgiveness, wasn't it?  No attempts to excuse himself, no attempts 
> to explain himself, no attempts to justify himself -- not even 
> a "Peter turned me against you!" accusation stuck in there 
somewhere 
> as a partial defense.  Just a pure and simple request for 
forgiveness.
> 
> That's hard.  That's about as sucking-it-up as apologies get, 
> really.  And coming from someone like Sirius Black, it really means 
a 
> lot, don't you think?
> 
> But just look at how Lupin *reacts* to it, will you?  Look at his 
> tone.  It's breezy.  Light.  Casual.  Childhood nicknames, "not at 
> all, old friend."  I mean, it's *flippant,* really.  It very nearly 
> borders on the facetious.
> 
> That's how Lupin always signals discomfort or distress.  It's 
similar 
> to that breezy tone he takes when he talks to Harry about the 
> dementors, and about Sirius Black, and about the Dementor's Kiss.  
> It's similar to the tone he takes nearly every time he is forced to 
> deal with Snape as a colleague.  For that matter, it's a relation 
to 
> the tone that he's been taking with Peter throughout the Shrieking 
> Shack scene.

 Yes, you're right.  I had never noticed that before, but that does 
seem to be the pose or tone that Lupin adopts whenever he is faced 
with a situation that one might suppose would elicit some sort of 
strong emotional response.  Remus is clearly angry with Peter in the 
Shrieking Shack scene, but does not express that emotion through 
raising his voice or via any physical demonstration.  Sirius is the 
more overtly emotional of the two.  When reading this chapter, I 
suppose I have put that down to his whole convict-on-the-run 
situation.  Of course he'd be a bit overwrought.  And I always 
figured that Remus recognized that Sirius was a human powder keg, and 
was doing his best to keep everything under control.

> Cindy wrote:
> 
> > A lot of people have expressed dissatisfaction with this scene, 
and 
> > perhaps one reason is that neither character has any good reason 
to 
> > be apologizing. 

   Elkins, again:
> I don't really think that's it at all.  For one thing, I think it is
> perfectly reasonable to apologize to a close friend for having 
> wrongly suspected him of treachery and murder.  That represents 
such 
> a profound failure of trust that to my mind, it *certainly* 
warrants 
> some form of apology.  And it particularly warrants an apology from 
> Sirius, because while Lupin would seem only to have come to believe 
> Sirius to be a murderous traitor after his arrest, Sirius suspected 
> Lupin on the basis of no solid evidence at all.  It's hard to avoid 
> the suspicion that Lupin's lycanthropy had something to do with 
that, 
> and even if it hadn't, I'm sure that Lupin thinks that it had.  I'm 
> equally sure that Sirius is aware that Lupin would assume that it 
> had.  And really, that's pretty ugly.  Given all of that, it seems 
> perfectly proper to me for Sirius to ask for forgiveness.


I don't think that Sirius thought Remus was the traitor because of 
some latent werewolf hostility.  He spent the better part of his time 
at Hogwarts figuring out and then resorting to the Animagus 
transformation for Remus' benefit.  I'm convinced that Sirius had a 
blind spot where Peter was concerned.  He and James had helped Peter 
during their school years, so it was second nature to see Peter as a 
wizard with average skills.  Why would the DEs even want him?  And, 
if Peter is discounted, then who else of the circle of friends could 
possibly be the traitor, except Remus?

> No, I think that the reason that so many readers express feelings 
of 
> dissatisfaction with that part of the scene is that the tenor of 
> Lupin's response strikes an off-note.  The tone is just all wrong.  
> It sounds insincere, unconvincing.  It sounds a bit like a brush-
> off.  And that leaves them feeling a certain degree of anxiety that 
> perhaps things aren't really settled between the two men, that 
> perhaps there are still some hard feelings there that aren't being 
> resolved.

Yes! Yes! Yes!  I've thought this all along, and have written to that 
effect several times.  The whole "I'm sorry, please forgive 
me" "Sure, as long as you forgive me, too" was way too casual.  These 
mutual requests for forgiveness and the granting of said forgiveness 
by both parties are all well and good, but it is much too laid-back 
for what each thought the other did.


 
> No.  Even if Lupin isn't holding onto any hard feelings at all, 
it's 
> still got to be difficult for him to think of a way to respond, and 
> so he tries to gloss over his discomfort by offering up a light and 
> breezy apology right back.  I also don't think that he's at all
> comfortable with Sirius breaking the Real Wizards Don't Apologize 
> rule -- it's not really *manly,* you know, to ask quite so 
earnestly 
> for another's forgiveness; it's not...well, it's just not *done.*  
> 
> He's uncomfortable, and he's embarrassed, and so he descends into 
> flippancy.  
> 
> That's how I read it, anyway.  I thought it rather sad, myself.
> 
> The big reconciliation moment of Shrieking Shack isn't that rather 
> awkward apology at *all,* IMO.  
> 
> It's the embrace.

Perhaps Remus is more comfortable in expressing emotion through 
gesture than through words.  This moment derives its power precisely 
because Remus' actions are unmistakable and his intent is 
unambiguous.  The Trio react immeditately with shock and anger 
because they see this as a betrayal by Lupin.  The embrace, I 
believe, also speaks volumes to Sirius, who is an absolute physical 
and emotional mess.  By acting as he does Remus sends quite a clear 
message that none of that matters - what matters is that he's now on 
Sirius' side and the two of them will join forces once again.

Marianne