Relative evil of Voldemort & The One Ring (was: Re: Death and Justice)

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 37002

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., John Walton <john at w...> wrote:
> talondg wrote:
> 
> > People have done evil things for corruptive influences - 
money, power,
> > fame, drugs - but nobody's suitcase full of money is 
conciously
> > attempting to control them. Nobody's suitcase of money is 
*alive* in
> > the way the Ring appears to be.
> > 
> > The Gollum -> Wormtail analogy falls down on this point. 
Gollum is
> > swept along under the influence of the Ring. He resists from 
time to
> > time, but the Ring is stronger than him, and ultimately lays 
claim to
> > him.
> 
> Hang on. Surely Lord Voldemort is just as evil as the Ring in
> _The_Lord_of_the_Rings_. A case could certainly be made, 
using examples of
> Wormtail's snivelling and wimpiness, that Wormtail is at least 
as "swept
> along" as Gollum. Moreover, the Ring is an impersonal object, 
though it does
> involve Sauron; however, one cannot see Sauron when one is 
not wearing it.
> In comparison, and particularly during Voldemort's reign, and 
to an extent
> in the GOF-and-beyond of canon, Wormtail is under the control 
of Voldemort
> as much as Quirrell ever was.

Tolkien's point in having Frodo spare Gollum was not that 
Gollum could have been rehabilitated. Tolkien made it clear that 
there was little hope of that. Nor did Tolkien believe that Gollum 
should have escaped punishment because was not evil in the 
beginning. "Nothing is evil in the beginning. Even Sauron was 
not so."   His point was either all of us deserve pity (because we 
are all fallen, miserable sinners) or none of us do. But only those 
who show   mercy "not to strike without need" will receive it. 

> 
> > But let's tweak the example a little bit. At the risk of invoking
> > Godwin's law, let's pretend that 1) I'm French 2) my yard is in 
France
> > 3) It's 1941 and 4) that's Adolf Hitler lying unarmed in my 
backyard.
>  

3) Doesn't hold up.The analogy would be not  1941 in the middle 
of the French resistance, but 1957 or thereabouts. In PoA, the 
enemy has been vanquished for twelve years and civil authority 
has been re-established. Sirius is perfectly confident that with 
Pettigrew in hand he'll be able to clear his name. He never would 
have offered Harry a home otherwise.

 Sirius never feared Pettigrew would bring Voldemort back to 
power.  His fear was that Voldemort would regain power some 
other way, and then Pettigrew would kill Harry in order to 
convince Voldemort's supporters of his loyalty. Sirius says Peter 
would never go back  unless Voldemort was once again the 
"biggest bully in the playground." The reader has been led to 
expect otherwise, because of Trelawney's prophecy, and 
because of what Fudge says about "give him back his most 
devoted servant". But Fudge is talking about Sirius Black, whom 
everyone thinks to be magically powerful, not Peter, whose 
power everyone underestimated. 

Pippin