Free Elves Unite/Harry as Saviour

[grey_wolf_c]

No: HPFGUIDX 37056

Laura Huntley wrote:
<snip example of Black American emancipation>
>> Imagine the stigma created against a race of people who had been enslaved for (as it seems in the house elf case) as long back as anyone can remember?  What kind of person would it take to break out against that, and imagine the uproar it would cause among both the enslavers and the enslaved.

First off, let me asure you that if we had been talking about any other 
type of enslavement appart from Potterverse elves, I would agree 
inmediately with your points. Although I do not place as much 
importance on personal liberty as (for example) Americans do, I still 
belive it's very important (in fact, normally placing other species's 
liberties over human's liberties) and that I do not, in any way, defend 
ANY kind of forced enslavement (or any other kind) except in fantasy 
worlds (why the specific mention of fantasy worlds is made is relevant 
further on).
 
>> Also, you seem to view the house elves as a happy, healthy people.  But consider their reaction towards Winky in GoF.  She needed help, she agreed with their state of mind, and yet they made no move to help her.  Furthermore, they express great disapproval at Dobby's choice to accept his freedom, to the point where he seems afraid of them.  If Hermione is acting as if she knows what's best for them, aren't they guilty of the same against Dobby?  Generally, a happy, healthy society does not terrorize those who do not fit in with its standards.

My defence of the elves enslavement comes from the observation of the 
typical elf's behaviour after the liberation (I've recently posted a 
theory on why Dobby is the exception and Winky the typical elf. 
However, I'm not going to repeat myself. if you do not agree with this 
classification, the next point isn't valid until we discuss it)

I think we both agree that Winky has NOT received well her liberation. 
The sad reality is that she's in desperate need of psicological 
assistence over the loss of her position, at first glance because of 
the dishonour of the situation, but on further study because she feels 
that she was taking care of the Crouch family. Winky firmly believes 
that neither of them were capable of taking care of themselves without 
her help (and I'm inclined to believe that that is the case, but it's 
beside the point). Winky, thus, considers her job extremelly important 
for the well-being of members of another species, and accepts that 
responsability without expecting anything in exchange.

That last conclusion deals an interesting parallel to the real world. 
I've known quite a few people who work for non-profit organizations, 
and they have the same basic impulses of Winky (and no-one has ever 
objected to the fact that those people worked for nothing appart from 
basic needs). Of course, you can counter that by saying that none of 
those were supposed to punish themselves over trivial matters, but (in 
the cases were those people helped other humans) they did have the 
moral obligation to keep the secrets of the people helped, and other 
clauses asociated to the elves enslavement.

The trouble with the enslavement is, in fact, Dobby's particular 
working conditions. Would you believe Dobby (or Winky), should they 
ever work for the Weasleys, would be forced to hit their heads against 
lamps over trivial matters? No, the Weasleys would never allow it (much 
less encourage it as the Malfoys did). The problem is that we don't 
have enough cases to make a real study of the wrking conditions of the 
house elves. However, we know about 100 elves, and only one had been 
regularly punished (there is no evidence of Winky ever having been 
punished. In fact, it looks like she could bully around Crouch Sr. with 
ease). Hogwarts elves are well treated, and I don't think most of the 
wizard families would think of punishing such increadibly fast and 
efficient workers.


> Of course, I may be a little biased in this case, as I am *fiercely* protective of my independence, self-reliance, etc., and that's just me, but your argument for why the slavery house elves are subjected to is not only justifiable, but *good*, sends shivers down my spine.  Aside from the Hogwarts elves, house elves seem to be required to punish themselves when they get out of line and are deem themselves unworthy of so many basic freedoms that many other human and humanoid life forms in the WW seem to enjoy.  The fact that these restrictions on their liberty are, for the most part, enforced by none other than themselves, is IMHO, not a reason why these restrictions are O.K., but the reason why they are deeply wrong.
> 
> laura

Again, let me asure that I'm talking of a particular non-human species 
that doesn't exist. I hope I'm not coming as a pro-slaver (which I'm 
not). Once that's out of the way:

I'm not sure if you (or anyone else) remembers, but I have been working 
on an essay comparing most of the fantasy worlds I've read about 
(specially revolving on their reality rules and how they differ from 
real life reality rules). I have obvioulsy included HPotterverse.  The 
subject of the elves enslavement is one that interests me quite a bit, 
because it reflects another enslavement that appeared on my favourite 
books, the Tamuli series by David Eddings. (If you haven't read them, 
this is going to sound somewhat strange). In that series, there is a 
race of humans (Atans) that, over the centuries, had bred for the 
perfect warrior (going for big, agile, and other warlike qualities when 
arranging marriages). they took it too far, and they discovered they 
were turning homicidal. To quote:

"The Atans observed that big people win more fights than little people. 
[...]Size became the most important consideration [when parents chose 
the mates of their children][...]The Atans prized other characteristics 
as well - ability, strength, aggressiveness and homicidal 
vindictiveness.[...]The Atan breeding programme finally went too far, I 
guess. The Atans became so aggresive that they started killing each 
other [...]. It got to the point that there was no such thing in Atan 
as a mild disagreement. They'd kill each other over weather 
predictions.[...]

Anyway, the Atans had a very wise king [...]. He saw that his people 
were on the verge of self-destruction. He made a contact with [another] 
goverment and surrendered his people into perpetual slavery - to save 
their lives"
		David & Leigh Eddings, Domes of Fire (Book I of Tamuli)

This situation reflects my view on the Pottervese elves: they realized 
that they had too much power (and I do mean too much: they apparate in 
Hogwarts, need no wand, throw wizards down stairs with thought alone, 
etc.) and put themselves into slavery because they couldn't stop 
themselves from killing each other (or iniciating a war with another 
species). Of course, this is based on a piece of canon we do not have: 
the origins of the elves's enslavement.

If you accept this interpretation (as one of the possible origins of 
the elves's enslavement), then it follows that liberating the elves 
does not only hurt them psicologically, but could mean their 
self-destruction.

Note: If you do NOT agree with this interpretation, the rest of my 
defense is quite a bit weak, but since I DO believe it, I'll continue 
to defend this position until Hermione or someone from the list armed 
with can(n)on proves me incorrect.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf