Free Elves Unite?

[grey_wolf_c]

No: HPFGUIDX 37097

Ama wrote:
> It's not that simple, Grey Wolf!  According to Dobby,
> house-elfs ARE exploited:
> In CoS, US Edition, p. 177, significance of Dobby's
> pillowcase : "tis a mark of the house-elf's
> enslavement, sir."
> Ibid, p.178, "Dobby remembers how it was when
> You-Know-Who was at the height of his powers, sir!  We
> house-elfs were treated like vermin, sir!"
> In GoF, US Edition, p 380, Dobby explains, "'Tis part
> of the house-elf's enslavement sir.  We keeps their
> secrets and our silence sir.  We upholds the family's
> honor, and we never speaks ill of them..."

Back to the line of fire, it seems...
Anyway, I *know* it's not that simple. As long as the elves are 
mistreated by their owners, their situation will be unfair. I know that 
some elves are being exploited, although we've only got one example, 
Dobby (notice that, appart from forcing Winky to go to high places, 
she's never been mistreated, and that was *her* idea in the first 
place). Furthermore, that example is not true anymore, since Dobby was 
liberated from the Malfoy. The fact that Dobby mentions that elves were 
oppresed during Voldemort's reign sort of lends credence to the idea 
that *right now* they are NOT being mistreated by their families. I 
mentioned (in one of the half-dozen posts I've writen on this thread) 
that elves are indeed expected to keep secrets, but that that 
particular condition isn't oppresion: all employees are supposed to 
keep the secrets they may learn from their superiors/employers/masters/
etc. To some point, it's also aplicable to honour (think of an employee 
of a company: his actions affect the company's reputation, and thus is 
expected to uphold it).

Nevertheless, lets assume that many elves are being mistreated as a 
matter of fact in the years after Voldemorts fall. Even if that is the 
case, the point I'm trying to make on these posts is that _liberating 
the elves is not an adequate solution_. It would cause them too much 
pain. If misstreatment of the elves is really common, some laws should 
be made (and enforced) to protect them from cruel masters, but, in any 
case, liberating the elves *would cause them too much pain*.

Ama again:
<snip psicological enslavement example>
> It seems to me JKR grasps the concept of mental
> bondage very well with the House-Elfs, so that even
> though we don't have a precise historical context, the
> point is driven home that the the plight of the
> House-Elfs mirrors the effects of colonial slavery. 
> Not only are they enslaved, but they believe they
> deserve to be enslaved, and convince themselves that
> they are happy because they are afraid of stepping
> outside their clearly defined world and going it on
> their own.  What's safe is comfortable.  Freedom is
> unknown, and therefore frightening.  Then along comes
> Dobby, whose rebelliousness highlights this situation.
<snip: Plato's shadows-on-the-wall example>

You've hitted the exact weak point of my theory: the possibility that 
elves do not want freedom because they've been brainwashed and/or are 
too scared of freedom. (Believe it or not, I have known this since the 
beginning. I wasn't going to make things easier for you by pointing it 
out, though :-) ). If that is the case, then the elves must be 
liberated and given psicological help to recover their free will. 
However, you have to work on the premise that they have been 
brainwashed. There are other possibilities: auto-enslavement because of 
mortal danger (my favourite), or that they simply like being slaves 
(Okham's razor). If we ever get a detailed explanation of the origins 
of the elves's enslavement, we will probably be able to go back on the 
subject (Note: if anyone sees any other possibility, please tell)

Ama once more:
> The House-Elfs don't strike me as a proud race at all;
> they are too servile.  Winky is just pathetic.  I
> agree Hermione has to be careful. Bless her heart, she
> really believes the house-elfs are brainwashed and
> need her help, but this can be interpreted as
> paternalistic, and that won't help the house-elfs. 
> The impetus for change has to come from within, if the
> house-elfs are ever to learn not to depend on wizards,
> and develop dignity and self-respect.  Hermione CANNOT
> be their saviour.  Can't you just see the elves all
> latching on to her?  That's why Dobby, as their equal,
> is important.

You're overlooking something: it's true that Winky comes off as 
pathetic once she's been liberated, but that's precisly the sort of 
damage I'm trying to spare them from. Once or twice, we see what, IMO, 
is the real personality under the tears: when she proudly defends her 
master. In those moments, Winky is proud, defiant and as heoric as any 
other character can be. She would cross fire to defend him. The elves 
HAVE self-respect. Trouble is, it's not in a form easily understandable 
by us (see DG's point at the end). You mention that they depend on 
wizards, but I don't see that. They want to serve wizards, but are 
totally independent from them (to the point of self-assigning 
punishment!). I could see the situation taken to the extreme: the 
master dies while he's sleeping, and the house-elf doesn't realise, so 
he continues to do all the work for days until his master's body 
becomes too "fragant" to ignore.

I do, however, believe just as you (and Hermione) that, if elves are to 
want to be liberated, it's going to spawn from Dobby's example, and 
that the only way that liberation can take place without having half 
the elf population become insane wih grief is that they see how they 
can be free and happy at the same time (supposing, of course, that 
Dobby is not as eccentric as I believe he is, and thus that the other 
elves can be like him).

Ama:
> Don't get me wrong.  I have no problem with the elves
> looking after wizarding families and their homes, or
> working in Hogwarts' kitchens.  We could say they
> represent the very best of the hospitality industry! 
> Dobby and Winky could even work with Madam Rosmerta in
> the Three Broomsticks, as waiters, or at a wizard
> hotel in Brighton!  But they're not actually treated
> like Madam Rosmerta are they?  What's with the filthy
> pillowcases, and the ironing of hands(or was it
> ears?), and the banging of heads on walls?  Taking
> care of people does NOT require servility.   Winky can
> learn, for example, to take pleasure in her job
> without it depriving her of her independence.  I have
> more to say on this, but I'll save it for another
> post.  I'm not picking on you, Grey Wolf, just
> suggesting alternatives to house-elf treatment!

I haven't felt offended at any point by your oppinions (I'm having 
enough trouble as it is trying to defend MY position against all I 
believe in, like Constitutional Rigths and Basic Liberties and the 
like). 

I insist, however, that, although of course they could do the work they 
do now while being free, that freedom would just be something signed on 
a paper, since I believe that they wouldn't WANT to be free. Thus, if 
Hermione managed the MoM to pass a law declaring all elves free, they 
would inmediately go back to their old jobs, donate all their pays to 
some cause or another, and continue being slaves.

Ama one last time:
> R.I.C.K.'S.T.H.E.B.O.S.S.?  S.O.P.E?  Yikes. Tabouli's
> gonna kick our hineys when she gets back.
> Ama

Well, we'll just have to make sure she doesn't know about it, won't we? 
;-) ::wink, wink::

DG wrote:
> Or maybe the House-Elves have a distinct (if somewhat alien) culture 
> that simply doesn't map into the Western sensibilities of Hermione, 
> and Hermione's efforts to force her interpretation of their "plight" 
> onto the Hogwarts House-Elves instead mirrors Western intrusions into 
> other cultures?
> 
> Perhaps Dobby really _is_ a degenerate from a House-Elf point of 
> view. Certainly all the HEs at Hogwarts view him this way. And while 
> a HE in the employ of a DE is likely to be poorly treated, I don't 
> think the Hogwarts' elves are. Hogwarts seems to be House-Elf heaven.
> 
> DG

This is the exact point I'm trying to make. It's nice to know that 
someone thinks the same way I do (I was starting to wonder)

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf