Memory Charm Re: W G / House Elves / Gs Hollow /breaking a Memory Charm

[uncmark]

No: HPFGUIDX 37140

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., > Finwitch wrote:
> 
> >  I *hope* that torture isn't the *only* way [to break a Memory 
> > Charm].

"catlady_de_los_angeles" <catlady at w...> wrote:

> I should have put in my two Sickles' worth earlier in this thread 
> that assumes that the way to break a Memory Charm is by torturer. 
> The source for that claim appears to be Barty Junior: "He had 
> captured Bertha Jorkins in Albania. He had tortured her. (snip) He 
> tortured her until he broke through the Memory Charm." But Barty 
> wasn't there; his evidence is just hearsay. 
> 
> I don't find Voldemort himself saying he used torture. At the 
> beginning of GoF, he says to Wormtail: "I killed Bertha because I 
> had to. She was fit for nothing after my questioning, quite 
> useless. (snip) But Memory Charms can be broken by a powerful 
> wizard, as I proved when I questioned her." In the Death Eater 
> circle, he says: "for -- with a little persuasion -- she became a 
> veritable mine of information. (snip) ...but the means I used to 
> break the Memory Charm upon her were powerful, and when I had 
> extreated all useful information from her, her mind and body were 
> both damaged beyond repair."
> 
> Voldemort says "questioning", "persuasion", and "means", all of 
> which are known as euthemisms for torture, but he also says "a 
> powerful wizard". Generally, a 'powerful wizard' is a wizard with 
> powerful magic, altho' in the Potterverse it could also mean a 
> wizard in charge of approving or rejecting expense account claims 
> for MoM employees. Neither kind of power is particularly relevant 
> to torture.

> I believe that Voldemort broke the Memory Charm on Bertha by some 
> kind of spell, some kind of Finite Incantatem. Because the Memory 
> Charm was so strong, the Removal Charm had to be even stronger, and 
> it was the side-effects of such strong magic that damaged her. A 
> strong Memory Charm can do damage (as people have quoted in 
> relation to Neville): "He put a very powerful Memory Charm on her 
> to make her forget what she'd found out. Too powerful. He said it 
> damaged her memory permanently." So I believe that a powerful 
> Memory Charm Removal Charm can do even more damage, even physical 
> damage.

Would anyone defend that Valdemort would hesitate to tortue Bertha 
Jorkins? As far as 'strong magic' I would think Crucio would would be 
strong enough to counteract any charm and it would be one of 
Voldemort's favorite spells.

I do agree that a spell such as Finite Incantatem should work with a 
memory charm. Voldemort probabley used some scanning spell to check 
Bertha for enchantments to discover the memory charm in the first 
place.

Which leads me to one of my favorite subjects, Neville's 
absentmindedness and his possible memory charm. I believe Neville's 
absentmindedness might be caused by a strong memory charm placed to 
help him deal with the trauma of seeing his parents tortured (or 
possibly himself) Neville was probably between ages 1-3 and such 
spells probably affected a young wizard.

I'm guessing subconciously Neville is working for a cure for himself 
and/or his parents possibly in Herbology. He may either find it 
himself or possibly have his charm beaten out of him by either 
Snape's mistreatment or hore heroically he might be tortured by a 
Crucio by and attacking DE. He might even take an attack in shielding 
one of the HRH trio proving his bravery.

Any opinions
Uncmark