[HPforGrownups] Re: Wizarding World law/ More trouble with the Fourth Man

[Edblanning at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 38371

Olly takes me to task:

> Eloise wrote
> >>Yeah. That bit's really confusing isn't it? I think she meant to 
> write 'pass sentence' instead of 'pronounce judgment'. Crouch *does* <<
> 
> Ok, Im probably going to get shot down for this one, it almost being a one 
> liner but... pass sentence/pronounce Judgement = exact same thing.  
> 
> If my brains working correctly (which it's probably not considering the 
> time here) pass sentence=You are sentenced to do X punishment.  Pronounce 
> Judgement is the same only its a case of You have been found guilty and 
> will do X punishment.
> 

OK, what's *my* excuse for sloppy writing? 

<thinks>

Can't think of one. Except that I'm saving my intellectual powers for trying 
to explain the complexities of Egyptian chronology. All this HP stuff is just 
displacement activity, you know, putting off the evil hour and all that.

I was interpreting 'judgement' as a judgement of guilt v. a judgement of 
innocence. I think it is more common usage to use the term 'pass sentence', 
but I concede that you have a valid point.

Debbie and Judy Serenity seem to have rolled out a troublesome little 
ca(n)non:
<Judy>
>Why don't I think Avery is the Fourth Man?  Simple.  First of all, the 
>Fourth Man, whoever he was, was sentenced to *life* in Azkaban.  That 
>means he is still there, or, more likely, died there.  And, Sirius 
>said that *almost* all of Snape's "gang" were Death Eaters.  The only 
>one not convicted of being a Death Eater was Avery, who got off by 
>pleading Imperiatus.  I take this to mean that Avery was *never* 
>convicted of being a Death Eater and *never* was sent to Azkaban.  
>Otherwise, Sirius would have said something like "All of Snape's 
>friends were Death Eaters, although Avery eventually got out of 
>Azkaban by pleading Imperiatus."  I mean, it's not like Sirius is 
>going to cut Snape's friends a break. 

Mm...... Sirius says that Avery wormed his way out of trouble by pleading 
Imperius.   It certainly does rather sound as if he was never convicted. Oh 
dear. Is the Fourth Man hovercraft letting on water?

OTOH, Debbie gives hope:

>But wait a minute.  If (i) Sirius is wrong, and Avery sleazed out of Azkaban 
>some way other than Imperius, or (ii) he got a retrial because the Council 
>got remorse about forgetting to get testimony from Crouch & Co. (after 
Crouch 
>had "died" perhaps), or (iii) corruption prevailed in the Ministry, and (iv) 
>a small taste of Azkaban was enough for Avery to give up his pursuit of 
>Voldemort, then Fourth Man Avery makes sense.

Sirius doesn't *have* to have been right, does he? And given the imprecise 
manner in which we've just seen legal procedings described, this *could* be a 
similar sort of thing. Although I'm not convinced. Even though Cornelius 
Fudge *Is* Ever so Evil. 

Which, if I'm not much mistaken, is in danger of taking us back to the Fourth 
Man as the third DE dead in Voldemort's service. Which seems a bit of a waste 
of a character, really. Can someone rescucitate him again, please? I like my 
birth on that hovercraft (and particularly the range of single malts lined up 
behind the bar!)

Eloise
(Who wishes she had enough imagination to come up with as many Fourth Man 
variants as Charis Julia and is intrigued and slightly shocked by the number 
of us who have come up with variants of Masochistic Fourth Man. Oh.... and is 
also rather touched by Debbie's characterisation of herself and Cindy as 
Tough and noble.)


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