Neville: Memory, History, Legacy, Power (LONG!) (Was:: Still Life)

[betsyfallon]

No: HPFGUIDX 38432

Finally, a chance to respond.  I believe Ron is jealous of Harry's 
ability for playing Quidditch, inwardly that is.  In SS, page 211, 
Ron sees himself in the Mirror of Erised. While looking in the 
mirror, he states, "I am - I'm wearing the badge like Bill used to - 
amd I'm holding the house cup and the Quidditch cup - I'm the 
Quidditch captain, too."

While I don't think that this jealousy or envy will be outwardly 
shown toward Harry, it may come up later, as a temptation that the 
Dark Side might want to use to get Ron on their side.

Betsy

  

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "cindysphynx" <cindysphynx at c...> wrote:
> So many good ideas in a single post!  I'm impressed!
> 
> I'll just pick out a couple of these excellent points that 
intrigued 
> me and about which I can think of something to say.  I won't 
promise 
> that they'll tie together into a harmonious whole; that's asking 
> way, way too much.  ;-)
> 
> *****************************
> Elkins wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Like Porphria herself, as well as Gulplum, Tabouli, Dogberry, and 
> > others who were kind enough to respond, I think that Neville is 
> > afraid of power.  That is a large part of what I think that Snape 
> > represents to him: power, and not only power in the general 
sense, 
> > but even more specifically, power as it seems to find its primary 
> > expression in the traditional culture of the wizarding world.
> 
> Ah, but why?
> 
> I would guess that most people don't have a problem possessing 
power 
> (although many people have difficulty deciding what, if anything, 
to 
> do with it).  By definition, not possessing power renders one 
> powerless, and few people aspire to be powerless, I'd say.
> 
> So why is Neville different?  Or more specifically, what happened 
to 
> Neville to cause him to fear power?  I highly doubt it is the 
> Traditional Memory Charm scenario -- that Neville saw his parents' 
> torture so someone placed him under a memory charm.  I mean, I 
don't 
> see the connection between memory charms as JKR has envisioned them 
> and power.  So there must be some other reason Neville fears power.
> 
> Well, one thing that might cause someone to fear power could 
> be . . . responsibility.  If you have power, then perhaps you have 
a 
> responsibility to use it.  In that case, then two things could be 
> going on:  (1) Neville must have some ability, some destiny even, 
> whereby he must use whatever power he has to affect change; and (2) 
> Neville must be aware that he has that power.
> 
> I have some ideas about what Neville's power is and why he might be 
> reluctant to use it (or even have others know about it), but uh, 
> I've said enough on that subject. ;-)
> 
> Anyone else willing to have a go?
> 
> Elkins again:
> 
> > JKR's wizarding society strikes me as above all else a 
> *competitive* 
> > culture.  <snip>  Everything, from academics to 
> > athletics to comportment, is viewed as fair game for the 
> allocation 
> > and docking of "points" which apply towards the attainment of an 
> item 
> > which serves a purely symbolic function: the House Cup.  The 
House 
> > Cup is nothing but a trophy.  It confers no actual benefit to the 
> > members of the House which possesses it.  It is a pure expression 
> of 
> > winning for the sake of winning.  
> 
> Oh, but this is so dreadfully *common* in real life, no?  I mean, 
> how often has any of us been involved in a competition in which 
> there is a goal, a prize, that is really worth having because it 
has 
> its own intrinsic value?  Almost all of non-professional sport is 
> premised on winning . . . absolutely nothing tangible.  Warm 
> fuzzies, at best.  Personal satisfaction, maybe.  So the Hogwarts 
> students are behaving in the same way.  They want the House Cup 
only 
> because others want it, and the only value it has is the fleeting 
> warm fuzzy feeling of . . . having kept the Cup away from a rival.  
> 
> Kind of sad, really.
> 
> Elkins:
> 
> >And yet the entire student body 
> > would seem to be terribly invested in its attainment.  They are 
> > willing to allow their desire for this empty symbol to 
> motivate .their 
> > actions to a degree that at times seems quite ludicrous.
> > 
> 
> Maybe the fact that the wizarding world is so competitive is the 
> reason I like it so much?  :-)
> 
> Nevertheless, there are certainly ways in which the wizarding world 
> is not competitive at all.  One of the least competitive areas at 
> Hogwards is academics.  Students frequently work in teams.  Harry 
> never frets about his class standing.  Harry and Ron don't really 
> seem jealous of or competitive with Hermione at all.  Ron and 
> Hermione aren't jealous of Harry's prowess on the Quiddich field.  
> Students don't sabotage each other academically, despite ample 
> opportunity.  The teachers don't seem to compete with each other 
> (aside from the sniping between McGonagall and Trelawney, which was 
> more about professional respect than about competition).  Crabbe 
and 
> Goyle aren't competitive with Draco.  Even Ron's big fight with 
> Harry really wasn't about competition -- it was about trust.
> 
> Perhaps this is all due simply to the fact that in these examples, 
> the student with the more modest potential simply knows there is no 
> point in being competitive.  But for some reason, JKR seems to have 
> devised a society that is very confrontational and competitive, but 
> still has managed to balance this with instances in which allies 
> aren't competitive with each other.
> 
> Elkins:
> 
> > I would very much like to see some challenge offered to the 
> > fundamental tenets of the Potterverse's wizarding culture.  I 
> > would very much like to see *someone* within the series show the 
> > capacity to think outside of the box represented by those four 
> > horrid Houses of Hogwarts School.  I would like to see someone 
> > question a few of the assumptions which serve as the foundations
> > for the culture of the wizarding world.  
>  
> Oh, my!  What an interesting challenge!  Is there any character who 
> consistently challenges the fundamental tenets of the Potterverse's 
> wizarding culture?  Anyone who thinks outside the box?  Marches to 
> his own drummer?
> 
> Yes, there is.  Voldemort.  Voldemort doesn't play by the rules of 
> the Wizarding World.  He uses Unforgivable Curses.  He wasn't 
> satisified with the honors Hogwarts bestowed upon him.  To the 
> extent we know what he stands for, it is purity of blood and Evil 
> for the sake of Evil.  So, yeah, we have someone who thinks outside 
> of the box.  But even then, JKR gives him no redeeming qualities 
and 
> makes it clear that the reward for straying from the conventions of 
> the Wizarding World is 13 years as a vapor and (undoubtedly) defeat 
> in Book 7.
> 
> And by extension, Crouch Jr. also strayed from convention, and look 
> where it led for him. 
> 
> So.  The lesson so far is that straying from the conventions of a 
> culture leads to chaos and evil and a tragic end.
> 
> Ugh.  
> 
> Cindy