SHIP: Hermione and Ron

[davewitley]

No: HPFGUIDX 38683

Penny wrote:

> We're talking about 3 inter-connected friendships, so I do object 
to people
> who argue that Harry/Hermione have a "sibling" relationship but R/H 
don't.

Me too, and vice versa.
> 
> While I'm on this aspect, I'll also comment that I don't care for 
the
> comparisons of the "quality" of the friendships amongst the members 
of the
> Trio (such as "Harry cares for Ron more than Hermione" or "Ron has 
a closer
> relationship to Hermione than Harry does").

Me too (I could legally stop here, as this would be a two-liner 'me 
too' post).

> <<<<<<(As yet another parenthesis, am I missing something in the
> American usage of the term 'dating'?  
> 
> Whoa!  To my American ear, this sounds like you're saying they'd 
move from
> platonic friends to sexual relations without anything at all 
intervening?  A
> bit abrupt.  Especially for teenagers.  :--)

Yes, that is abrupt, as applied to HRH (their royal Hogwartnesses?).  
I meant in general.  I confess that I have difficulty thinking myself 
into their relationships as I had no close relationships, whether 
romantic or no, at that age.  So I tend to think how I would react as 
if I were the age I am now (44), in the light of their circumstances, 
which is doubtless different.  What I was trying to say was that I 
find the idea of any of the Hs or R suggesting a quiet (?) 'date' as 
a means to furthering the relationship.  The point being that all 
three relationships are already in some ways well beyond anything 
that either teenagers or adults experience.  And the other half of my 
overall point being that the relationships in other ways are very 
primitive (if that's the right word), so we can't apply conventional 
thinking about the way relationships develop.  I would say that one 
of the biggest weaknesses that runs throught he shipping debates is 
the convention that we have platonic (including 'sibling') 
relationships on one hand and romantic or sexual ones on the other, 
with very little in common between the two.  I prefer to try to think 
without using these categories at all (while to an extent being 
forced by the English language to express my ideas in them), which is 
why I find it hard to know whether to prefix posts about the 
developing relationships within the trio with the word 'SHIP', since 
I don't believe there is a line to be drawn.
> 
> Dating is more than just "getting to know each other" over here.  
Does
> "going out" make a difference to you?  Hermione doesn't need to get 
to know
> either Harry or Ron, but I doubt that she'd jump into bed with 
either one of
> them without a few snogging sessions first.  <g>

Agreed.  "Going out" is closer but would still sound a little quaint 
to me.  In fact, while I don't want to go too far down the line of 
speculating the actual possible development of an H/R ship, it could 
be the reverse of jumping into bed - possibly an agreement that they 
have unfinished business that they want to pick up when they are 
ready, which would modulate all their other relationships
> 

>  I have the sense that he's trying to *win* an unspoken
> argument.

Agreed - that's what I was trying to say.

>  I see them as having very fundamentally different outlooks.

Less sure about this.  I think Ron may simply fail to realise that 
what he believes intellectually about elves, giants etc. contradicts 
what is in practice his positive and open outlook (as I see it) 
towards other individuals.  He is partially aware of it over Hagrid.  
If he does relaise it he could move a lot closer to Hermione's 
position on those issues.  (As an aside, where *do* the Weasleys get 
their prejudices from? I think Molly.)


> No, I don't think so.   I think bickering is the defining 
characteristic of
> their relationship; it's how they interact.

Now here we have a straight difference over what is written in 
canon.  I see plenty of bickering, but 'defining characteristic' - 
not me.  We need Amy's list.

> Ron & Hermione could
> have a romantic relationship (and a successful one), despite the 
bickering.
> But, they'll have to grapple with their fundamental differences of 
opinion
> on various subjects & come to grips with the fact that they may not 
be able
> to ever "convert" the other one to their way of thinking.

Agreed.

I have to go set the table for supper now, or bickering will be *our* 
defining characteristic at home.  I will try to deal with the 
outstanding issue of whether Hermione treats Harry the same as Ron 
over issues where they disagree another time

David