Hermione and Ron (SHIP)

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 38712

I said, of Ron:
> > <<<<< He's not miserable because Harry got chosen 
Tri-wizard  Champion, remember, but because he thinks Harry 
didn't take him into  his confidence about it.>>>>>>>

To which Penny countered:
> > > > That's what Ron says.  Hermione says that Ron's jealous 
of Harry's fame.  I think Ron was angry that Harry got the 
opportunity to be a  Tri-Wizard Champion even though he was 3 
yrs too young.  I don't  think it's so much that Harry wasn't taking 
Ron into his  confidence.  At least that's not my spin on it. <<<

Naama supported Penny:
>>>>Hermione says that Ron doesn't  really think that Harry lied 
to him; that what he is really jealous.  The reader is clearly meant 
to accept this as the true explanation.  Ron was jealous – so 
bitter that he needed to manufacture a more acceptable cause 
on which to transfer his resentment. <<<<
> 

Well, we were meant to accept that Snape was trying to murder 
Harry and that Draco was the Heir of Slytherin, also. GoF differs 
from the other books in that it leaves quite a few open issues 
besides what Voldemort will try next.  I agree with Penny that the 
extent of Ron's jealousy is one of them. Yes, he's jealous, but 
jealousy may not prove to be the only reason he didn't back 
down. A lot of it could be sheer stubbornness, mirroring 
Hermione's stubbornness over the Scabbers/Crookshanks 
debacle. He also may have been reacting to the way  Hermione 
sneers at all the people who hang on Krum. Perhaps, 
subconsciously, he wanted an excuse to break with Harry so as 
to show himself (or her) that  he isn't just a sycophant. 

Hermione's record on relating other people's motives to actions 
is not stellar. She's been wrong about Snape, Malfoy, Lockhart 
and  Lupin, to name a few.   Clearly we are  being set up to 
wonder how far Ron's jealousy might drive him. I think, though,  
that we will eventually discover Hermione was being a bit 
simplistic (again). It's just her guess that Ron was only jealous: 
careful reading reveals that he didn't tell her so, and that she is 
not about to discuss it with him. Possibly Hermione fastened on 
jealousy because she's projecting a little? She's the one who 
seems fascinated with famous wizards, and who colors or 
weeps whenever she is praised. 

I said:
>>>If H/H happens  the Daily Prophet   will still bill her as Harry's 
partner. Somehow, I don't think she'd be really happy about that 
<g><<<<<<<

Amy asked: 
>>>>> Do you really think she'd care?  I don't get the slightest 
idea that  Hermione minds that her academic achievements 
pale in importance next to Harry's 
make-the-world-safe-for-wizarding adventures.<<<<

The context was whether Hermione's fame would serve to shield 
Harry from his, and I was explaining why I didn't think that would 
happen. Hermione understands that what Harry's doing right 
now is more important than "books and cleverness". After 
Hogwarts, once the WW is well and truly saved, I think it might 
bother her if her achievements continued to be overshadowed by 
her association with Harry, particularly if Harry were more or less 
retired from public life. It would be like being the SO  of a Beatle. 
You'd never know whether your accomplishments were being 
recognized for their own sake.


> > Switching lastly & briefly to Dave, who said:

> > <<<<<<Less sure about this.  I think Ron may simply fail to 
> realise that what he believes intellectually about elves, giants 
> etc. contradicts what is in practice his positive and open 
outlook 
> (as I see it) towards other individuals.  He is partially aware of 
> it over Hagrid.  If he does relaise it he could move a lot closer 
to 
> Hermione's position on those issues.>>>>>>>>>
>  

 I think Hermione and Ron are  already lots closer on this than 
they think they are. They both care passionately about injustice. 
Ron is just as  indignant about  Sirius and the injustice done to 
Buckbeak as she is. In the House Elf case, the argument is 
really about the facts. Ron thinks, from everything he's heard, that 
most House Elves are well off as they are. Hermione thinks, 
from everything she's read, that they can't be. Neither of them 
have thought to ask the House Elves what *they* think. Hermione 
is, IMO, very dismissive of them, calling them "brainwashed and 
uneducated" .

Ron and Hermione both have to struggle against  prejudices 
they've picked up from the culture. "Don't trust him...he's a 
werewolf!" is *Hermione's* line. It's no wonder Ron rolls his eyes 
when Hermione later announces loftily that people's opinions 
about werewolves and giants are just prejudice--he's reacting to 
her self righteousness, not just her position.

PIppin