Ron (just Ron ... no SHIP); Bickering

[serenadust]

No: HPFGUIDX 38715

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny Linsenmayer <pennylin at s...> wrote:
> Hi --
> 
> Jo Serenadust said:
 I've always 
> gotten the impression that she finds it stimulating rather than 
> upsetting.>>>>


Penny wrote: 
> Well, yes, she may indeed find it stimulating.  Then again, it 
might take on an entirely different dynamic if she were romantically 
involved with Ron.  Right now she's just sparring with a good 
buddy.  This could go either way IMO.  <g>


I'm glad we can at least agree on this point :--).  So often it 
seems that people blame Ron for the bickering as it he were 
*inflicting* it on poor, victimized Hermione.  She's just as feisty 
as he is.

More Penny:
 
> I said: <<<<<I'm the one who's hugely offended when people try to 
say things like "Ron is more important to Harry than Hermione" for 
example.  I 
> *know* I've said this before: if asked to name his 2 best friends, 
> it's clear Harry would name Ron and Hermione (and I don't think 
he'd 
> even agree to prioritize them).  If asked to name her 2 best 
> friends, I'm sure Hermione would say Harry & Ron.  And obviously 
Ron 
> would name Harry & Hermione.  I don't think there are any 
> hierarchies of any sort within the Trio.>>>>

 
> Jo Serenadust responded:  
> 
> <<<<But, but...Ron *is* more important to Harry when push comes to 
> shove. I really don't want to "hugely offend" you but JKR makes it 
> clear on two occasions in GoF, that if forced to choose, Harry 
would 
> prefer Ron to Hermione.
> "Harry liked Hermione very much, but she just wasn't the same as 
> Ron.  There was much less laughter and a lot more hanging around 
in 
> the library when Hermione was your best friend"  GoF, Chapter 19
> 
> This clearly indicates that before their rift, Harry regards Ron 
as 
> his *best* friend, and Hermione as one of his best friends. In the 
> second task, of course, Ron is the one thing Harry will miss 
most.>>>>>>


Penny reacted as I feared <g>:

> :::screams:::
> 
> No, no, no!  :--)
> 
> I so don't agree with this assessment.  Of course, she's not the 
*same* as Ron; she's a girl.  And when you're a 14-year old boy 
who's not too keen on studying in the first place, you'd naturally 
miss your best male buddy who knows all the Quidditch terms & wants 
to spend time outdoors instead of cooped up in a library.  That 
doesn't mean that if he was point-blank asked: are you better 
friends with Ron or with Hermione, that'd he say "Ron."  
> 
> Also, more importantly, *much, much* more importantly: Harry did 
in effect answer that question at the bottom of the Lake during the 
2nd Task.
> 
> ***************
> 
> 
> He turned back to Hermione, raised the jagged rock and began to 
hack at her bindings, too --
> 
> At once, several pairs of strong grey hands seized him.  Half-a-
dozen mermen were pulling him away from Hermione, shaking their 
green-haired heads and laughing.
> 
> "You take your own hostage," one of them said to him.  "Leave the 
others --"
> 
> "No way!" said Harry furiously -- but only two large bubbles came 
out.
> 
> "Your task is to retrieve your own friend ... leave the others...."
> 
> "*She's* my friend, too!' Harry yelled, gesturing towards 
Hermione, an enormous silver bubble emerging soundlessly from his 
lips.


Easy, easy, girl.  Deeeep cleansing breaths.... that's right.
Of course, Harry says she's his friend and she is.  Being Harry, 
he'd never leave her down there just to win the task if he thought 
Krum wouldn't make it in time.  However, he also saves Cho and 
Gabrielle ( who he doesn't know from Adam's housecat) when it seems 
that they will not be rescued in time.  Harry is a hero; that's what 
he does.  I never meant to imply that he doesn't value Hermione very 
much as his friend. I would venture to say that if Harry were asked 
point-blank to choose which one was his better friend, he would of 
course, decline to answer.  Still, I maintain that from the very 
start, Harry has had a natural bond with Ron that is unique.  Since 
he never in his life had any sort of friend, Ron's reaching out to 
him on the train was a real turning point in his life (just as 
important IMO, as finding out that he is a wizard).  Ron's 
generosity in sharing his knowledge of the wizarding world, as well 
as his own family is probably the most precious thing in Harry's 
life, and he's almost bereft during the time when he and Ron are on 
the outs. OTOH, when he and Ron are ticked off at Hermione during 
the Firebolt incident in PoA, he probably misses her, but doesn't 
seem to be in as much pain about her absence from his life during 
that period as he is about the Firebolt being confiscated.

Penny continues:
> 
> I will *never, ever, ever* buy the argument that Harry values Ron 
more than Hermione unless & until JKR specifically confirms this in 
a chat or writes it in a clear & unambiguous way into one of the 
next novels.  Likewise, I would *never, ever* believe that any of 
them would prioritize their friendships within the Trio.  The 
friendships & such *will* change if an inter-Trio romance develops 
or tries to develop & fails; that will certainly change the 
dynamic.  But, until then, I remain very opposed to the notion that 
Hermione is in effect a secondary member of the Trio.  In fact, if 
you say that Harry & Ron would both put her as their "2nd" best 
friend, you're in effect saying that there is no Trio really.  There 
are 2 best friends who also both count this studious girl with bushy 
hair as a good friend, but not a best friend.  I can't agree with 
that.  
> 

Well, I really doubt that JKR will ever specifically confirm that 
Harry values Ron more than Hermione in either chat or text because I 
can't imagine that ever being necessary.  I'm sure it would be 
excruciating for any member of the trio to "reject" one in favor of 
another and I hope I didn't imply that this would happen. (I also 
hope that no inter-trio romantic triangle develops -- what a cheap, 
cheesy development that would be)  It's just that the way I read the 
books, Harry and Ron would have been friends, whether Hermione 
existed or not.  Their relationship was firmly established early in 
SS/PS when they still couldn't stand her.  I don't see anything to 
indicate that either Harry or Ron would have been friends with 
Hermione without their prior friendship with each other.
 
For all intents and purposes, the three of them are "best" friends, 
regardless of how they came to be so.  It's just that from Harry's 
POV, he just plain has more fun with, and more in common with Ron, 
and since his life has been completely fun-deprived before meeting 
Ron, he tends to enjoy the time spent exclusively with Ron, or with 
Ron *and* Hermione, more than he does the time spent with Hermione 
alone.

Does that help clarify things?  Do you feel any better now?
Didn't think so.

Sorry,

Jo S., calling 'em like she sees them