TBAY: Memory Charm Neville Meets Reverse Memory Charm Neville (WAS ToadKeeper M

[cindysphynx]

No: HPFGUIDX 38737

Nuria wrote:

> I do like this theory. In fact, IIRC there's no evidence in canon 
>that Neville has a memory charm cast on him. 

To be fair, there is *some* evidence in canon for Memory Charm 
Neville, although there is certainly no *direct* evidence.  The 
clues are there, which is why many people believe in that theory.  

Um, I'm hardly the best person to summarize Memory Charm Neville 
canon because I don't buy the argument.  But basically the Memory 
Charm Neville believers might say:

1.  Memory Charms are used extensively in canon, whereas there is no 
such thing as a Reverse Memory Charm.  Reverse Memory Charm 
believers outwardly scoff at this argument (although inside we are 
deeply shaken by it).  *Of course* JKR hasn't mentioned Reverse 
Memory Charms yet, we cry!  It's supposed to be one of the Big Plot 
Twists in OoP, so she doesn't want to give it away.

2.  Neville appears to have a faulty memory, which is one of the 
hallmarks of a traditional Memory Charm.

3.  Somehow many of us take for granted that Neville was *right 
there*, a cowering, helpless child listening to his parents tortured 
shrieks, although there isn't a shred of canon to support this 
assertion.  So why do so many of us take Neville's presence as a 
given?  Because it is irresistably Bangy!  It's a *huge* explosive 
Bang!  I mean, how can it possibly be that Neville was off spending 
some Quality Time bonding with Formidable Gran and Bent Great Uncle 
Algie while Frank and his wife are being tortured half-to-death by 
Mrs. Lestrange, Mr. Lestrange, Crouch Jr. and Fourth Man?  JKR, a 
closeted Banger, would *never* write Neville's backstory so that he 
misses out on all that pain. 

Eh, there's probably more, but one of the Memory Charm people will 
have to step in here, because I can't put any "Oomph" into 
explaining Memory Charm Neville.  I just can't.

What I'm unclear on, Memory Charm believers, is who you think put 
the charm on Neville.  I mean, Tabouli really went after you Memory 
Charm folks in Message 37,695.  She explained how the Memory Charm 
theory doesn't make sense if you believe Neville's family put the 
charm on him to spare him pain or if you believe DEs put the Memory 
Charm on Neville to cover their tracks.  I don't recall that anyone 
has really explained *who* would have put a Memory Charm on 
Neville.  Anyone?  Anyone?

But Reverse Memory Charm Neville believers are quite clear on who 
put that charm on Neville -- Moody, under orders from Crouch Sr., 
that's who.

Nuria:

>However, given that he was
> indeed a toddler when his parents were crucio'd, it is more likely 
>a Reverse Memory Charm had been used on him (this is what we 
>Muggles call Regressive Hypnosis!)

Raven:  

> I just couldn't help wondering, if Harry can relive
> the deaths of his parents that occurred when he was 15
> months old, isn't it quite possible Neville could have
> similar memories even without magical assistance?
> Granted, it could be that Harry is extra-special in
> this regard as in others, but OTOH it could be common
> in the wizarding world for memories, especially
> traumatic ones, to persist from infancy.<<<<

Hmmm.  I don't think we can really say that wizarding tykes have 
more memories at a young age than muggle tykes.  Harry went through 
a traumatic experience at age 15 months when he was practically 
blasted out of his mother's arms by the Most Evil Dark Wizard who 
ever lived and the whole house fell down around his head.  I get the 
impression that Voldemort was no Looker back then either, so this 
should have been terribly scary for Harry.  Yet Harry remembers 
nothing other than some green light until under the influence of a 
dementor.  And no one felt the need to come in and give Harry a 
Memory Charm to spare him these memories.

So should Neville (age 2 or younger) be traumatized by the screams 
of his parents?  Unlikely.  But let's say he was.  Does that justify 
the benevolent use of a Mega Memory Charm to make the boy forget 
this for 13 years?  Would Neville's family do this and knowingly 
damage his memory and impair his magical ability given how hung up 
they are on this whole "family honor" concept?  

And, for cryin' out loud, if they are so darn worried about making 
sure Neville forgets what happens to his parents, why to they go out 
of their way to take him to St. Mungos?  Are they just hoping the 
Memory Charm will finally break and Neville will go to pieces right 
there at St. Mungos?  Sheez, Neville's family can't be *that* bent.

Cindy (thinking Reverse Memory Charm Neville ought to be a 
paddleboat because it requires so darn much energy to keep the thing 
moving)