Cheese... Ron.-bashing Hermione... Harry...

[serenadust]

No: HPFGUIDX 38763

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "heiditandy" <heidit at n...> wrote:
<snip queen of slythrin's statement expressing disdain for the 
notion of a HRH love triangle>
> 
> And Jo wrote:
> > I also hope that no inter-trio romantic triangle develops -- 
what 
> > a cheap, cheesy development that would be


Heidi wrote:
> I'm going to reiterate Penny's wonderful (although not completely 
> complete :) list of "Classics" which contain a very low level of 
> cheese, right here:
> 
> <<Ah, yes. Acknowledge literary classics have *never* used love 
> triangles. 
> :::cough::: Little Women, Jane Eyre, Tale of Two Cities, David 
> Copperfield,
> Tom Jones, Emma, A Passage to India, Paul Scott's "Raj Quartet" -- 
> just to name
> a few. Yeah, great literature never uses anything so silly & 
cliched 
> as a love triangle. >>


You are completely misquoting me here.  Of course there have been 
love triangles in great literature, and I never said there weren't.  
However, in each of the examples you name, the love triangle is an 
intergral part of the plot.  Harry Potter isn't about romantic 
relationships between the main characters (no matter how much some 
listmembers seem to want it to be).  It's mainly about the battle 
between good and evil, with the coming of age of Harry in the WW as 
the background.  Any romantic stuff is there as either comic relief, 
or PART of Harry's growing up process.  To throw in a triangle would 
IMO detract from the main theme of the story and therefore I still 
maintain would be cheap and soap-operaish, and JKR is much too good 
a writer to even *want* to do that (IMO, of course).


Heidi wrote: 
> 
 although I don't agree at all 
> with Jo when she said: 
> 
> > There's 
> > certainly no reason she couldn't just walk away from Ron when 
> their 
> > arguments get heated.  She never does, though, and it seems very 
> > important to her that she stay engaged in the conflict until it 
> > blows itself out. 

Heidi wrote: 
> Clearly, Hermione loves a good debate, and she (like, um, me) 
> doesn't let debates about things which she cares about, but which 
> are, to some extent, not personal to her (like the house elves 
> issue, or some prejudice issues, or even homework) affect her 
> enthusiasm for debating them.
> 
> However, when Ron's comments get really mean and nasty and 
personal, 
> like they did at the Yule Ball, she does walk right away from him.
> 
> "Ron," said Harry quietly, "I haven't got a problem withHermione 
> coming with Krum-"
> But Ron ignored Harry too.
> "Why don't you go and find Vicky, he'll be wondering where you 
are," 
> said Ron.
> "*Don't call him Vicky!" Hermione jumped to her feet and stormed 
off 
> across the dance floor, disappearing into the crowd.
> Ron watched her go with a mixture of anger and satisfaction on his 
> face.
> *************
> Satisfaction?
> That he made her cry?
> And he's *satisfied* by that?
> What a mean and obnoxious thing to do! What a horrible thing to 
> feel! How dare he?

Oh please.  They were fighting, Ron was feeling sulky and jealous,
and he lashed out as a result.  Don't tell me you've *never* had a 
rotten little jolt of satisfaction when you've scored a point with 
someone, even if you've said something unkind.  We all have.  It's 
not nice, but it is human. (and she wasn't crying)


Heidi again:
> I think this scene is very evocative of Hermione's feeling that 
when 
> Ron gets too pushy and too mean, she will just walk away. And of 
> course, even people who are married occasionally push each other 
too 
> far - sometimes over stupid things like where in the baby's room 
> will the bambi rug go, but other times, people really get on each 
> others' cases about more monumental things. 
> 
> And perhaps it's just me, but I can see why someone could deal 
with 
> debates about world issues, art, musical tastes (my husband hates 
> 90% of what I love, and vice versa, for example), or which weekly 
> newsmagazine to get, but be unable to respond to a personal attack 
> in any way other than leaving the conversation. (side note - I 
think 
> no discussion of the ron&hermione conversation in the common room 
> afterwards can ignore the fact that the last time they'd talked 
that 
> evening, she'd run off crying, but that's for another post.)

Heidi, I checked the book.  She wasn't crying.  Her cheeks got pink 
and at one point her voice quivered, but there were *no* tears and 
nowhere does it say she wept, bawled, blubbed or any other synonym 
for crying.  She was royally ticked off (and rightly so) but not 
crying.


Heidi again: 
> I also think that it's easy to say that Hermione could just end 
her 
> friendship with Ron if it stressed her too much, but it's very 
hard 
> if not impossible for her to actually do that for various reasons. 
> First, she would lose a lot of Harry. While I think that their 
> relationship is balanced at this time, if she suddenly decided 
that 
> she wanted to move away from her friendship with Ron,  then Harry 
> might be in the same situation he was in in Book 5, in terms of 
> having to spend time with them separately (and yes, there's an 
> indication in Book 3 that off the page, he talks to Hermione to 
try 
> and get her to talk with Ron) and that would naturally reduce the 
> amount of time she could spend with him. There's also an 
implication 
> that she's friends with Ginny outside her friendship with Ron & 
> Harry. If she had a falling out with Ron, would she feel so 
> confident that her friendship with Ginny would survive it?



So you're saying that Hermione continues the friendship with Ron 
because if she ended it she'd see less of Harry and Ginny? Do you 
really think she *doesn't* like Ron, but puts up with him to hang 
around with his best friend and sister?  I have a much higher 
opinion of her than to think she'd be that pathetic, even if it 
meant that her time with H & G would be reduced as a result.  She 
always gets over the arguments with Ron, why can't we?

 Heidi continues: 
> And there's nothing wrong with trying to convince your friends 
that 
> something is missing in their lives. I mean, how many of you have 
> NOT tried to get one friend - one family member - one colleague - 
to 
> read the HP books? On OT Chatter here, people are always posting 
> about new books, evangelizing about movies, saying You Must 
> See/Try/Do this! That's what a sig file is for - you put links to 
> your fanfics, or your website, or your FILKs, to encourage people 
to 
> look them over. And you do this so your friends will be happier 
> people, once they've discovered the wonderful thing you enjoy so 
> much. 

Well, just speaking for myself but while I'm happy to hear my 
friends suggestions, when they begin to presume that something 
is "missing" in my life because I don't do what they want me to, I 
begin to be offended.  Fortunately, I don't have any friends who are 
this agressive.  This is one thing that I do find obnoxious about 
Hermione sometimes.  She always is ready to tell everyone else how 
to run their lives.


Heidi wrote:
> 
> 5. The reasonable solution?
> 
> Draco/Hermione. 
> 
> No, don't laugh. Go read Pride & Prejudice instead, remember that 
> Draco, as we've seen him, is 14, possibly quite bright, 
occasionally 
> witty and possibly redeemable. And if... and if... And if he 
follows 
> in the footsteps of Fitzwilliam Darcy, he'll be a better match for 
> Hermione, as Elizabeth Bennett, than anyone else could be. Yes, I 
> admit it's a big if... but they've both got a bit of growing up to 
> do, and it could happen. 


Sorry but, ROFL.  As I remember P&P (read several times over the 
years), Mr. Darcy doesn't ever wish Miss Bennet DEAD.  While there 
were major misunderstandings between these two characters, there are 
none between Hermione and Malfoy.  She LOATHES him, and with very 
good reason.  Unless she "grows up' to be downright stupid, I can't 
see her suddenly becoming attracted to someone who regards her as 
being deserving of extermination because of her bloodline. That's 
just 
a bridge too far, for me.

I'm fascinated by the widely divergent interpretations of canon on 
this list, although I worry that sometimes fanon is making the water 
very muddy.

Jo S.