TBAY: Memory Charm Neville Meets Reverse Memory Charm Ne...

[elfundeb at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 38792

In a message dated 5/14/2002 10:19:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
cindysphynx at comcast.net writes:
> 
> What I'm unclear on, Memory Charm believers, is who you think put 
> the charm on Neville.  I mean, Tabouli really went after you Memory 
> Charm folks in Message 37,695.      She explained how the Memory Charm 
> theory doesn't make sense if you believe Neville's family put the 
> charm on him to spare him pain or if you believe DEs put the Memory 
> Charm on Neville to cover their tracks.  I don't recall that anyone 
> has really explained *who* would have put a Memory Charm on 
> Neville.  Anyone?  Anyone?
> 
I can't let Memory Charmed Neville go undefended.  First, though, I don't 
think 
Tabouli expressly disavows the Cover Your Tracks Memory Charm (though she 
does an excellent job on the protective use of the charm).  She just jumped 
ahead to the Reverse Memory Charm.  She said in message 36832 (the one Cindy 
cited is her own message in which she tries to find some action for Prof. 
Trelawney):

> A Memory Charm to conceal the identity of the perpetrators would make more 
sense, because then the fact that Neville sees the aftermath isn't a 
problem... he can't remember the *actual* event, and hence can't point the 
finger.  This is where Cindy's Reverse Memory Charm comes in.  
> 
I don't believe the Reverse Memory Charm is necessary to explain the Cover 
Your Tracks Memory Charm (erm, I think we need an acronym for this).  This 
assumes that Neville's testimony was necessary to identify the Pensieve 
defendants.  While Neville's testimony would have been helpful, I'm not 
convinced he would have been capable of giving it, even if the Memory Charm 
was removed.  It's equally possible that one of the Pensieve defendants was 
caught and ratted on the others, after a little, er, persuasion (either of 
the unidentified men would do here, as one had a blank look and the other was 
very nervous).  

But this was all preparatory to Cindy's question, which is to identify who 
put the Memory Charm on Neville.  Actually, I think there's been little 
speculation from Memory Charm proponents on who performed the charm because 
it could have been anyone, including someone other than the person doing the 
torturing.  The only possible limitation is that after the Memory Charm was 
performed, you don't want Neville remembering a strange DE standing in front 
of him.  There are three ways around this:

1.  Neville was too young to recognize a stranger.  However, I think some 
time had elapsed between Voldemort's defeat and the Longbottom affair, so 
Neville may have been old enough for the perpetrator to at least be concerned 
about this.   So this is perhaps not the most likely scenario.

2.  Before performing the memory charm, the perpetrator executed some curse 
(such as the ones used on Snape in the Shrieking Shack in PoA or the ones 
used on Draco & Co. at the end of GoF) to knock poor Neville out, and left 
him apparently sleeping in his bed.  This would have been easy.   It even has 
a Bang.

3.  The perpetrator was someone Neville knew.  This seems very reasonable to 
me.  After all, they needed to get into the house and breaking down the door 
might have given the Longbottoms enough warning to escape.  There are lots of 
possibilities for this person, among them the Pensieve defendants themselves. 
 While almost anyone might have known the Longbottom family, it would be more 
Bangy (just because you don't believe in the theory doesn't mean it can't 
have Bang, right?) if it was someone who was very close to the family, so 
that it would be a shocking revelation that he was involved.  This leaves 
only one person among the Pensieve defendants:  Fourth Man.  The very same 
Fourth Man whose identity as Avery I doubted only a couple of short weeks 
ago.  Besides, Fourth Man Friend of the Longbottoms has equal plausibility 
whether or not Avery is our Fourth Man.  After all, Avery cannot be counted 
out as a relative of Neville's; Mrs.Longbottom may be the former Miss Avery.  

But there's also the possibility that a fifth person was involved, or that 
one of the Pensieve defendants was not involved but took the fall on behalf 
of that fifth person.  Lots of possibilities here too, including but not 
limited to Snape the double agent (for those of you who think he's still 
evil, though I'm not sure why he would have known the Longbottoms) and Evil! 
Gran, my own favorite after Fourth Man.
 
More from Tabouli's old post:

> Hmmm... now that raises another possibility... were the Lestranges and co 
torturing the Longbottoms to try to break a Memory Charm on *them*?  Perhaps 
they knew where Voldemort had fled, and Dumbledore or someone obliviated 
their memory of this so they *couldn't* give it away.
> 
If only Frank was an Auror, why would Mrs. Longbottom have received a Memory 
Charm?  I think this theory could only explain Frank's Memory Charm. 

In any event, I've got my own Memory Charm theory on the older Longbottoms, 
that in addition to (or maybe instead of) the Cruciatus Curse, the DEs 
executed Memory Charms on the Longbottoms.  After all, the DEs can be 
expected to be thorough.   Why be so careful with a toddler and skip the 
parents?  But, you ask, why didn't they just kill the Longbottoms?  Perhaps 
someone had gotten wind of what was going on at the Longbottoms and the 
Aurors were knocking at the door. Or maybe just anyone was dropping by, like 
Gran.  Anyway, they didn't want to kill the Longbottoms because they had not 
yet succeeded in breaking the charm.  If this is the case, then it's possible 
that the real problem with the Longbottoms is that either (a) the Memory 
Charm was botched, Lockhart-style, so they lost their entire memories, or (b) 
the MOM attempted to break their Memory Charms so they could testify but in 
doing so damaged their minds beyond repair, as happened to Bertha Jorkins.  
And so the MOM claimed that the Cruciatus Curse caused their insanity, to 
cover their own tracks.  This would make their evidence *seem* quite 
unreliable.

And on another detail, Cindy stated:

>   Somehow many of us take for granted that Neville was *right 
> there*, a cowering, helpless child listening to his parents tortured 
> shrieks, although there isn't a shred of canon to support this 
> assertion.  So why do so many of us take Neville's presence as a 
> given?  Because it is irresistably Bangy!  It's a *huge* explosive 
> Bang!  I mean, how can it possibly be that Neville was off spending 
> some Quality Time bonding with Formidable Gran and Bent Great Uncle 
> Algie while Frank and his wife are being tortured half-to-death by 
> Mrs. Lestrange, Mr. Lestrange, Crouch Jr. and Fourth Man?  

This will surely show how boring I am, but I thought Neville was likely there 
because he, um, probably lived with them and, well, might have heard his 
parents scream and gone to find them.  But then again, is there any canon 
evidence that this happened at home?

Debbie, who often feels like she suffers from a Memory Charm herself but is 
relieved to have found a new Bang for Fourth Man


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