FF: Speculation - a matter of perspective; Perspective in the Potterverse

[heiditandy]

No: HPFGUIDX 38987

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "serenadust" <jmmears at c...> wrote:
> 
> I just thought that we were supposed to try to 
> embrace the point of view of the author, as we are able to discern 
> it.  

Do you mean "we the listies when we discuss things"? Or just "we the 
readers when we read things?" And... well... in an open canon like 
HP is, how can we presume to see or know her point of view, 
especially when the canon we've seen so far is chock-full of 
foreshadowing and red herrings?  I think the salient phrase in the 
above is "as we are able to discern it." Do you really think that 
any two people discern her point of view in the same way, every time?

> I 
> personally find her depiction of the relationship between Malfoy 
and 
> Hermione pretty clear.

You "personally" - exactly. Does this mean that you realise that you 
have no more idea of her point of view than I do? And that you 
acknowledge that your view of the depiction of that relationship is 
just that - your view, "personally"?


> I hope I haven't hurt the feelings of anyone who 
> writes/enjoys fanfic.  I have been impressed by the amazing amount 
> of effort and obvious talent that goes into the better ones.  It's 
> just not for me.

Actually, you kinda did - I can deal with harsh reviews, but I 
always get on the defensive when someone makes the presumption that 
my admittedly creative theories are without canon support, or that 
they're somehow completely generated by the imaginations of others. 
But then again, there've been discussions on this list - November, 
2000 actually, about how uncreative Bloomsbury & Scholastic *and 
JKR* were in the Wand Order issue, in comparison to the creative 
theories some of us had come up with here. But her version is 
definitive, and we will be fine with it. And it'll be the same way 
when books 5, 6 and 7 come out. She'll come up with things that this 
list... that every fanfic writer... never considered or debated or 
thought up. And some things we did (there were fics involving 
foreign schools before GoF, for example). And it'll be wonderful and 
there will be new fanfics spinning out from *that* canon. Yay, imho. 

And, on a wholly personal note, I was - and still am - troubled by 
your feeling that fanfic is subversive. It's one of those situations 
where the term is just so *loaded* that it can't be read as anything 
but a scathing indictment - and I think you actually meant it as 
such. However, I also don't think that there's anything wrong with a 
subversive reading of an open canon. You can predict or analyse 
anything you want because *we just don't know* what the "real" world 
of Harry Potter is going to contain in the future. 

We have no flipping clue.

So, how is one *conclusion* that's based on canon any more 
subversive than any other? 

> Fanfic IMO brings a whole new, subversive level of distortion to 
the 
> characters in particular.  They aren't JKR's Harry, Ron, Hermione, 
> et al; they *can't* be.  I wouldn't care so much if I hadn't read 
so 
> many posts citing other author's versions of the characters in 
> support of the posters perceptions of the canon characters.

Erm. Where did you read such posts? On *this* list? I've looked back 
over posts from the past month or so which referenced fanfic, and 
I've found a few posts where people say that a certain argument has 
been articulated in a fanfic, but I really haven't seen "so many 
posts" on this list citing fanfic authors' versions of the 
characters in support of that poster's perceptions of the canon 
characters. Well, other than a few posts by fanfic authors 
themselves, who have noted in posts here that we've articulated 
various of our arguments in our fanfics.  



Jo also wrote:
> I do thank you Penny, for directing me to Steve's post.  He does a 
> much better job than I do in presenting the reasons for my 
> reservations about fanfic.  I'm thrilled to be in such 
distinguished 
> company!

But he doesn't say the same things you do at all. In fact, it is 
quite the opposite. 

He said,
<<You read fanfic to get new insights into the characters? You 
suddenly see Draco in a new light? Great! I have no problem with 
that, if that's what you like.>>
You, on the other hand, say,
<<I've seen loads of posts from 
people who actually say that they have changed their opinions of 
situations and/or characters, based on fanfiction they've read. I 
find that disturbing.>>
and
<<I just don't think 
it actually *is* as valid a way of exploring the books as the 
discussions on this list because it it a narrative form.>>

Steve, OTOH, considers it a legitimate way of enjoying the books. 
You don't. You're entitled to make that determination for yourself, 
of course, but given that Arthur Levine, her publisher, has said 
that "It's the highest compliment you could possibly pay to a work 
of imaginative fiction that the reader would be so involved and feel 
so much a part of the world of a book that they would want to go 
there and stretch their imagination," 
(http://www.usatoday.com/life/enter/books/book738.htm) and JKR 
herself has said, "I have read some [fanfic], and I've been very 
flattered to see how absorbed people are in the world..." 
(http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/cookarama/yahoolintoct00pt1.html), I 
truly think that you have no authorial perspective to support your 
argument that fanfic is a de facto subversion of authorial intent. 

Where do we go from here? I have no idea. All I can really say is, 
the next time you read a post from me that makes an argument that 
you didn't think of yourself, or even one that you personally see no 
canon support for, as long as I give some canon basis for my 
argument, I truly hope you don't come to the conclusion that the 
argument I make is derived from, based out of, concluded as a result 
of or otherwise wholly influenced by my reading fanfiction. And I 
hope you grant that courtesy to everyone else on this list. 

You don't have to read it, but you don't have to make snap judgments 
about those who do.

Heidi Tandy