TBAY: The Night The Jabberknoll Screamed (LONG)

[elfundeb at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 39014

Back at the office, Debbie once again pores over forgotten tomes, weary and 
bored.  The eyes flicker, the head begins to bow, and soon Debbie finds 
herself . . . back in the Canon Museum.  Yes, the symposium is over, and the 
hall is empty, or so it seems.  There's Eloise, still sleeping in her 
MATCHING ARMCHAIR as the mediwizards from St. Mungo's arrive to reclaim her; 
and Avery across the way nervously peering out the window at the damaged 
Fourth Man Hovercraft, nay, two hovercrafts, one the mirror image of the 
first and bearing the name "Parallel Universe Fourth Man" on the masthead, 
each still moored to the dock.  Avery looks perplexedly at the two, seemingly 
unsure which one to board.

But what's this in the hallway?  A ticket booth for the Reverse Memory Charm 
paddleboat?  And there's Cindy, trying to grab Debbie, who still has her 
paddle as well as her FEATHERBOA, and strong-arm her into not only buying a 
ticket but also doing half the paddling.  Debbie shudders and steps back into 
the meeting room, which is littered with programs, some spattered with ink 
mingled with black-olive Kool-Aid.  Debbie wanders over to the remains of the 
refreshment table, picks up an empty plastic pitcher that once held Kool-Aid, 
and scrutinizes the inside, looking carefully for any evidence of Jobberknoll 
feathers.  She puts the pitcher in a plastic bag, affixes a label, and puts 
the whole back into her satchel.  She then strides back out toward Cindy's 
booth for a little chat.  Debbie wants to be polite, but she definitely 
doesn't want to end up paddling laps around the Bay.

Debbie overhears Cindy uttering a loud aside:

> Maybe Cindy can *reason* with Debbie.  Brute force has always worked better 
> than reason, Cindy 
> thought bitterly, but it might be worth a shot, just one last 
> desperate shot . . . 
> 
Uh, reasoning would be better, Cindy.  You're talking to the only person on 
this list who thinks it's not out of the question that Frank actually knew 
something and did not Crack.  <The evil glint fades from Cindy's eye; Debbie 
is visibly relieved, as she abhors force of any kind.  At least when it's 
used on her.>

Cindy continues:> 
> Ah, but that is why JKR's description of the Jobberknoll is so 
> *cool*.  She doesn't tell us exactly what a Memory Potion is, and it 
> could easily go either way -- eliminating memories or enhancing 
> them.  But, thank goodness for Reverse Memory Charm Neville, she 
> tells us that the feathers can be used for Truth Serums -- and the 
> only Truth Serum we've seen in action is Veritaserum, which causes 
> someone to recall something and reveal it against their will on 
> demand.  

Ah, but Truth Serum does not necessarily require the recipient to recall 
something he/she otherwise could not recall, only to spit it out, as the 
Jobberknoll does in death.
> 
> So . . . logically, the feathers ought to have the same effect in 
> the Memory Potion -- causing someone to recall something and reveal 
> it against their will.

Why have two potions that do the same thing?  Each potion should do something 
quite different, depending on the other ingredients of the potion and how 
they are mixed together.  The Truth Serum causes the recipient to out with 
the truth, as the Jobberknoll outs his memories.  But something in the other 
Truth Serum ingredients must counteract that unfortunate backwards gibberish 
effect.  There's no certainty that the Memory Potion does the same.  There's 
no proof that a Memory Potion does not turn the memory into backwards 
gibberish.  But Cindy, I do concede canonical plausibility.

> 
> Also, 
> why would anyone bother with a Memory Potion (gathering ingredients, 
> brewing it, feeding it to the victim) when they can just hurl a 
> Memory Charm at them and be done with it?
> 
Maybe the potion works better.  We can do a study comparing Neville and 
Lockhart.  We can check out Lockhart when we visit Eloise.

Now on to this interpretation point.  I say the Lestranges talked their way 
out of being sent to Azkaban in the first place.  You say:

> Sirius is pretty clear:  
> Crouch Jr. "was caught with a  group of Death Eaters who'd managed 
> to talk their way out of Azkaban."  
> 
> Sirius didn't say "was caught with a group of Death Eaters who'd 
> managed to talk their way out of *going* to Azkaban" or "talk their 
> way out of trouble."  Given how little we have to go on, shouldn't 
> we take Sirius at his word here and decide that Crouch Jr. was the 
> only one of the Pensieve Four who hadn't landed in Azkaban?
> 
Well, where I come from when we say we talked our way out of something, it 
means the thing never happened.  I've never read this sentence any other way. 
 (Of course, my sentence isn't *pure* canon, nor are any of my arguments, 
because I only own the US editions!)  I think this is an unresolvable 
interpretive question, to be left to Judge Rowling.

Next question - was Crouch Jr. innocent? Cindy, you say
> 
> that the "Innocence" arguments require us to believe that Crouch Jr. 
> took Mrs. Lestrange to Frank's house and left without ever knowing 
> what was happening.  If Crouch Jr. saw what was going on and did not 
> assist Frank, he's every bit as guilty as Mrs. Lestrange, I say.

I agree.  I was thinking, though, that it's also possible that only three 
people -- the Lestranges and Fourth Man -- came to the Longbottoms and Crouch 
Jr. just happened to be around when the MOM got around to an arrest.  That 
would make Crouch a truthteller in the Pensieve.  My recollection is that he 
doesn't go around telling outright lies; he prefers the double entendre to 
carry out his charade ("If there's one thing I hate, it's a Death Eater who 
walked free.")

Now, this pesky problem of whether Mrs. Lestrange used Imperio.  Cindy says 
yes.  > 
> 
>  . . . <snip>"  I read this sentence to mean that Crouch needed 
> >to keep Moody alive and that he used Imperius to control him and 
> >keep him from getting out of the trunk.  I don't think this 
> > statement means that Crouch used Imperius to force the truth out 
> >of Moody.  Instead, I think Crouch used Ennervate when he wanted to 
> >talk to Moody, and  perhaps Veritaserum (he had access to Snape's 
> >storeroom) to get truthful answers when he needed them. 

Cindy eyes the box of Yellow Flags that Elkins brought to the 
Symposium, particularly the sweaty one on top.  

No, Cindy, no!  Please!  Not the Yellow Flag torture!  I did say "perhaps."

Upon reflection, Cindy decides to be nice and gets out her can(n)on:
> 
> JKR is quite specific about what exactly Crouch Jr. did, and there 
> is no mention of Veritaserum.  Crouch Jr. even tells us exactly what 
> he stole from Snape -- boomslang skin.  Besides, Snape has a very 
> small amount of Veritaserum, and it is supposedly strictly 
> controlled.  I doubt he leaves it lying about unguarded.  
> 
> Also, why would Crouch Jr. use Imperius just to *control* real 
> Moody?  Real Moody can be controlled with Stun or with that Full 
> Body Bind curse or even Impedimenta.  The reason to use Imperius, 
> IMHO, is to force Moody to talk.  
> 
Ok, maybe he didn't use Veritaserum.  But can(n)on doesn't state he used 
Imperius to make him talk.  <Debbie rummages through her pocket and pulls out 
a very old, very battered book bearing the title "Rules of English Grammar."> 
 It says, "I kept him alive, under the Imperius Curse.  I wanted to be able 
to question him".  It does not say that Crouch Jr. questioned Moody under the 
Imperius Curse.    It says Moody was kept alive "under the Imperius Curse."  
That's one sentence.  The next few sentences answer the question why he was 
kept alive, as I read it, not why he used Imperius to do it.  "I wanted to be 
able to question him. . . . I also needed his hair. . . ."  

Debbie stops for a moment.  Cindy is looking skeptically at her "Rules of 
English Grammar."  Maybe she and Cindy had different grammar books.  Maybe 
Cindy uses different sentence-parsing rules.  Debbie adds that to the list of 
unresolvable issues.

> The only way to avoid the conclusion that Crouch Jr. used Imperius 
> to question real Moody is to believe that Moody voluntarily told 
> Crouch Jr. all he needed to know.  I rather doubt that.

There's no question I think this Imperius reference is quite flinty either 
way.  If Imperio is a substitute for Veritaserum, why isn't it used all the 
time?  Why would torture ever be necessary?  And if it wasn't used, Crouch 
Jr. doesn't give a full explanation of how he got Moody to talk.
> 
> <snips backstory on Mrs. Lestrange's supposed first visit to Azkaban, 
> because if Imperius was a truth-telling device there'd be no reason not to 
> use it.>
> 
Cindy then tries to convince Debbie that Frank could not have known anything:

> I see no reason to think that Frank knew where Voldemort was -- particularly 
> if 
> Voldemort was but a noxious gas at that point.

But there were plenty of animals in the forest with knowledge of the noxious 
gas.  If Pettigrew could find him (GoF p. 655, US), it is not out of the 
question to think a trained Auror could too.
> 
> Oh, I don't doubt that MoM was looking.  I just think MoM didn't 
> know where Voldemort was and Frank Longbottom certainly didn't 
> know.  And if Frank did know, does anyone really think he would 
> resist torture to the point of being driven insane rather than 
> reveal the information?

Well, I have a few scenarios to answer that question.  The one below posits 
that the torturers weren't finished with them yet.
> 
> Debbie:  
> 
> >And why, even if they were gibbering wrecks, would the perps leave 
> >them alive?  
> 
> You know, I've checked my notes of the Symposium, and I *still* 
> haven't heard a compelling answer to this question.  

<snips Cindy's deep theory on soullessness being worse than death and presses 
her own alternative theory to explain this problem, to which Cindy replies:
> 
> Are you proposing that MoM tortured the 
> Longbottoms to break through a Memory Charm that the perps placed on
> the Longbottoms rather than just killing them outright?  
> 
> Er, I may need some clarification there?

Well, yes.  That would be the /Bad Aurors torture Frank because they think 
maybe he's a double agent/Bad Aurors are nearly caught by DEs at the Door so 
they Memory Charm the Longbottoms intending to return (including Neville by 
accident)/MOM breaks through charm in desperate attempt to find culprits to 
try causing insanity of Longbottoms/ scenario.

> But Debbie and Cindy move on to the Jobberknoll scenario:
> 
> > But wouldn't [Neville's] association of the Jobberknoll death rattle with 
> >torture indicate that in fact he doesn't remember what Cruciatus 
> >actually sounds like?  
> 
> Oh, no.  Neville knows *exactly* what the torture of his parents 
> sounds like.  He also knows what the Jobberknoll death rattle sounds 
> like.  The Egg sounds like the latter, not the former.  But as the 
> death rattle *was* a backward version of the Longbottoms' screams, 
> the Egg did remind Neville of the torture, but indirectly so.

And this wasn't a problem for him on the train when the Dementor arrived?
> 
> Now if he heard the torture and his memory was *erased*, then why on 
> earth does he liken it to the torture -- a torture he doesn't 
> remember?  

Neville's been obsessed with the Cruciatus curse ever since he saw the spider 
suffer silently, and he's been trying to imagine what it sounds like.  

But you know, Cindy, I think I can explain all of these problems and 
disagreements.  She did it on purpose.  No, not Mrs. Lestrange.  Rowling.  
She knew she wouldn't have the fifth book in time because of all that surgery 
she did to GoF, so she gave us something to do.  She deliberately made it 
vague, wrote those sentences with a secret grammar book, made all those 
curses look Flinty.  She knew we wouldn't be able to interpret anything 
consistently, forcing us to fall back on elaborate backstories and 
explanations. <big stage whisper> *We're doing her work for her.* Even now, 
she's logging off, after checking out the theories.  She's very impressed 
with you, Cindy.  She hadn't planned on doing anything with the Jobberknoll, 
but she's looking back at the manuscript now, trying to fit it in.

Debbie grins at Cindy, then pulls the Kool-Aid pitcher out of her satchel.  
"And now I know how you remembered that obscure little bird."  She reaches 
back into her satchel and pulls out a book, "Moste Potente Potions."  Turning 
to the page reading Memory Potions, Debbie begins to read down the list of 
ingredients, which include  . . . Kool-Aid. . .  Jabberknoll feathers 
(exactly three, shredded) . . . and black olives.  

Just then a hideous commotion is heard from the basement.

> CINDY, THERE'S A DE MURDERING ME IN THE BASEMENT! AND I WANT TO LIVE! 
> I WANT TO LIVE TO RELAX IN OUR NEW CANON SUPPORTED MATCHING ARMCHAIR! 
> HELP!
> 
 Oh, no!  It's Eileen, reliving all her worst memories!  I saw her while we 
were talking.  She drank the potion!  Is there an antidote? 

Cindy looks grim, but makes no response.

Debbie thinks hard, then says softly to Cindy, I think there is one.  Just 
one.

It's a Memory Charm.

Debbie, who sometimes can distinguish between Memory Charm Depreciation and 
tax depreciation
> 
> For an explanation of the acronyms and theories in this post, visit
> Hypothetic Alley at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Admin%
> 20Files/hypotheticalley.htm 
> and Inish Alley at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/database?
> method=reportRows&tbl=13
> 


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