Mystery and Evil!Winky and Sexy!Remus (not together)

[bluesqueak]

No: HPFGUIDX 39122

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "catlady_de_los_angeles" <catlady at w...> 
wrote:
> Pip wrote:
<snip> 
> > Of course, if that is so, then JKR is definitely subverting the 
> > detective format. In detective stories, the detective is someone
> > who *must* solve the case. In the Potterverse, it might be that 
> > 'detective' Harry is someone who *mustn't* solve it.
> 
Catlady replied:

> Subversion of the detective story format? Yawn. Not at you, or at 
> Harry, but at ... Agatha Christie, isn't she the one who had the 
> murderer be the narrator? And the recent movie Memento. Everyone 
> always subverts the detective story.

As you say, everyone's had a go at subverting the detective format. 
You can have stories where the 'great detective' is an idiot, where 
there's no murder, where the narrator is the murderer, where the 
detective is the murderer, where a victim is the murderer, where 
*everybody* did do it - and so on. Haven't seen Memento, so  I don't 
know if that is a format where it's essential that the 'crime' 
mustn't be solved.

 But we already *know* that JKR likes subverting formats - she's done 
it with the 'school story' format in PS/SS, where Harry firmly points 
out that 'who wins the School Cup' is seriously unimportant.

And I disagree that using something 'done before' is a Yawn.  Georges 
Polti pointed out back in 1868 that there are only 36 basic dramatic 
plots. The question is not whether a plot  has been 'done before' 
(it's always been done before) but whether the writer is using it in 
an interesting way. JKR's certainly ahead on points there as far as 
I'm concerned. (Back in post #39061  I also gave my opinion that JKR 
is *not* writing a detective story as such, but using detective story 
techniques. Just as she's not writing a school story, but is using 
school story techniques.)
 
Pip wrote:

> > Have you considered whether a theory of 'Winky the House Elf is
> > Ever So Evil' could fit into Crouch Jr impersonating Crouch Sr? 
> > Given that I am assuming that the whole QWC Barty escape attempt 
> > (which has NO coincidences if you decide it was planned/ordered 
by 
> > Voldemort and deliberately assisted by Winky) was designed by JKR
> > to get Winky fired from her role as the Crouches's House Elf and 
> > thus 'plant' her in Hogwarts for a later book.
>

Catlady replied:

> Granted that I am extremely gullible, 

I don't think you are at all. So far I haven't noticed any other 
posts suggesting Evil!Winky. It's extremely well hidden. And I could, 
of course, be completely wrong. 

>I don't think of Winky as Evil 
> or loyal to Voldemort, but rather as loyal to Barty Jr (whether 
that 
> is due House Elf tradition or to a rather unsuitable 'ship'). 
> 
> If the bad guys killed or stunned/imprisoned Barty Sr so that Barty 
> Jr could inpersonate him, Barty Jr would be in a position to fake 
> firing Winky without rigging up all that QWC stuff,

Ah. You may have misunderstood me here (my apologies - I should have 
made it clearer). I don't think 'getting Evil!Winky into Hogwarts' is 
a Voldemort/Crouch Jr. plan. I think Evil!Winky would have been 
better placed supporting Barty as False!Crouch, and that in fact 
Voldemort is *seriously* pissed off that Winky got herself fired.

I think getting Evil!Winky into Hogwarts is a JKR plan - and the real 
main purpose of the QWC - but by the end of GoF she's portraying 
Voldemort as becoming sufficiently un-pissed off enough to see the 
possibilities.

          
Pip

 (Who can feel a looong post coming on about Evil!Winky (unless it 
has been done before) - but it may have to wait until the (UK) public 
holiday next week :-)     )