[HPforGrownups] How Twenty is Twenty?

[GulPlum]

No: HPFGUIDX 46555

At 04:58 13/11/02 +0000, Steve wrote:

>Recently when I was complaining that the frequently use of the number
>20 should not be taken literally, I suggested that there were examples
>in the book where the number 20 was used in which it cleary was
>inaccurate and did not reflect the number of people who were there.
>Someone challanged me to present those.

For the record, 'twas me. :-)

<snip>

>We have 20 brooms at flying leasons for a double class (two houses).
>We have 20 cauldrons in the potions classroom even though everyone has
>their own cauldron, and it too, is a double class.
>We have 20 ear muffs in Herbology for a double class.

<snip>

PA - US hardcover Pg 101
>"In fact, it didn't look like a classroom at all, more like a cross
>between someone's attic and an old-fashioned tea shop.  At least
>*twenty* small circular tables were crammed inside it, all surrounded
>by chintz armchairs and fat little poufs."

May I change your emphasis in that sentence from "at least *twenty*" to 
"*at least* twenty"?

Incidentally, there is no implication that all tables were occupied. 
Furthermore, from the description of Divination classes, it seems that each 
table seats no more than three, but usually two, or perhaps designed only 
for one (the pupils are often paired off; it would make sense for them to 
be segregated from each other).

<snip>

<The QWC stadium in GoF>

>About 20 purple-and-gilt chairs. 10 in the Weasley party, + 2 UK
>Minister of Magic & Sports + 2 Bulgaria Minister of Magic and Sports +
>3 Malfoys + 2 seats saved by Winky = 19 seats taken out of 20.
>
>So where did all these other 'important wizards' who gradually filled
>the box for half an hour sit???

Err... the "important wizards" ARE the Ministers, Malfoys, etc... (once the 
box is full of these "important" people, we are introduced to them as 
necessary ).

Note the "about" in the first quoted sentence, which again you failed to 
include in your emphasis.

Compare and contrast (as school essay titles frequently demand) that usage 
with the unqualified use of "twenty" when describing the classroom 
equipment: it's not "about" twenty cauldrons (although it *is* "around 
twenty earmuffs" in the box).

Either we agree that JKR is very deliberate about her language, or we're not...

>My point again is not to argue the logistics of these situations but
>to point out that the number 20 is not necessarily an exact
>representation of the size of anything or the number of people
>involved. It's simple a  'not too big/not too small' very easy to
>visualize number that JKR frequently falls back on.

I agree that "about/more than/etc. twenty" is an expression JKR uses a lot. 
But exactly because she chooses to qualify the number,  should we not take 
those occasions when she does *not* qualify it to be the actual number?

A few more examples of twenties, qualified or not:

"Black was taken away by twenty members of the Magical Law Enforcement 
Squad" (PoA  p. 155)

"Twenty merpeople" accompanied the Judges after the Second Task (GoF p. 437)

"Around twenty ghosts" are in the Great Hall (PS/SS p. 86)

"around twenty spiders were scuttling" (COS p. 117)

"The creature ... must have been twenty feet long at least" (CoS, 224)

Interestingly, a whole paragraph from GoF p. 222: "The Great Hall seemed 
somehow much more crowded than usual, even though there were barely twenty 
additional students there; perhaps it was because their differently colored 
uniforms stood out so clearly against the black of the Hogwarts' robes. "

So in answer to your question in the subject title, it seems that when JKR 
says "twenty", she means twenty, and when she says "about twenty", she 
means, errr... about twenty.

--
GulPLum AKA Richard, who was meant to go to bed over two hours ago but 
couldn't leave Steve's message unanswered. :-)