Sociopathic Sirius? (and no Paranoid Snape?)

[kiricat2001]

No: HPFGUIDX 47327

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Judy" <judyshapiro at d...> wrote:
<snip>
 
> It's true that we can't read the characters' mind, but one can tell 
a
> lot about introspection level by looking at behavior.  Dumbledore, 
for
> example, is highly introspective.  He gets lost in the Pensieve,
> hardly remembering that Harry is there, and sits staring at the
> ceiling in the Great Hall, deep in contemplation. 
> 
> I'd say that Snape is far higher than Sirius in introspection.  
But, I
> don't mean that he necessarily has more insights into his own
> behavior.  Rather, I mean that he is focused on his own thoughts
> instead of the external environment.  

I'd agree that Snape is introspective.  I couldn't say for sure one 
way or the other about Sirius.  I think in many of the list's Sn/Si 
discussions we tend to compare the two men against each other or 
against a set of defined behaviors that we wish to delve into.  The 
only real problem I have with that is that we have seen a lot of 
Snape in all four books.  We've seen Sirius in only two books and, 
for a great part of PoA we were led to believe he was the bad guy.  
We've seen Sirius as a major player in two major scenes(the Shack, 
the Cave) and one somewhat smaller scene (Head in the Fireplace).  
He's been barely more than a bit player in other scenes, and we have 
to rely on letters to Harry for more info.  

On the other hand, we see Snape interact with the Trio, with other 
students, with his peers at Hogwarts, with Dumbledore, with MoM 
people, with visitors like Karkaroff.  We hear him speak, we see his 
reactions. Yes, all this may be colored by Harry's interpretation, 
but nevertheless, we are given a number of Snape interactions. 

We see Sirius interact with the Trio, Lupin, Snape, Pettigrew and 
Dumbledore. That's it. (I'm not counting the Hospital scene at the 
end of GoF because Sirius in human form is only there long enough to 
shake hands with Snape, make Molly Weasley scream and say goodbye to 
Harry.)  

My point is that I don't think we have as complete a picture of 
Sirius as we do of Snape. We can certainly take what we know, and add 
what other people have said about him and his past, and draw 
conclusions.  But, we don't have the same level of observation on 
actions and words that we have of Snape.


Big snip of introvert/extrovert discussion (I hated doing it because 
it was very interesting, but I don't want to get hexed for leaving 
too much info in! ;-)

> I don't believe that a few months in the tropics could undo the 
damage
> caused by 12 years of hell.  Saying that Sirius has recovered by GoF
> implies that people can recover quickly from years of trauma, and I
> don't think that's true.  Portraying Sirius as recovering so quickly
> bothers me because people who've been traumatized in real life are
> often told to "just get over it" and are pressured to recover 
quickly,
> even if that just isn't possible.  


Again, I agree wholeheartedly that it takes more than a few months to 
recover from this level of trauma.  However, and this gets back to my 
above comments, we don't actually see a lot of Sirius.  Isn't it 
possible that he is still suffering damage, but has the inner 
strength or resiliency or whatever to get his act together when he 
knows he will be interacting with Harry? 

In GoF, Sirius knows in advance that he will be speaking to Harry via 
fireplace and that the Trio are coming to meet him at the cave.  
Plus, from Harry's letters he has some idea of what Harry's going 
through.  He has some time to prepare himself to listen and offer 
advice.  I think it's telling that in the scene in Dumbledore's 
office after the Third Task, where Sirius doesn't know in advance 
what Harry's physical or mental state is, he becomes progressively 
more upset/withdrawn at the story.  To the point that he retreats 
into a shell with his face hidden in his hands when Harry talks about
seeing James and Lily.

So, yes I don't think it's possible that anyone can recover from 
trauma that quickly, and I don't think that Sirius has recovered.


> Here's a question that I've been meaning to ask Sirius' (many) fans.
> Did you like him in PoA?  Or, did you not start to like him until 
you
> read GoF?  I'm wondering if people like him *because* of his actions
> in PoA, or *despite* his actions in PoA. 

Once I realized that he had been wrongly accused and had endured a 
twelve year sentence of mental torture, I jumped onto the Sirius 
bandwagon with both size 10 feet.  Plus, the thought (silly me, I'm 
such a sucker) that Harry could go live with a wizard, and one who 
could provide a big link to his parents, and that Remus had recovered 
a friend he thought he'd lost...I should probably say I'm not one of 
those who fall into the Lupin (or Black) is Ever So Evil. Yes, I 
liked him despite of his actions.



> By the way, I agree with a lot of the "Sirius Apologetics" in 
message
> #47051.  I especially agree that Sirius didn't deserve to be sent to
> Azkaban. (Yeah, too bad Snape doesn't realize that.)  I can't buy 
that
> Sirius feels lots of remorse over the Prank, though.  He certainly
> doesn't show it in the Shrieking Shack. 

I don't think we've seen evidence of a lot of remorse, either.  
However, Sirius' focus in the Shack was very much on other things, 
and rehashing old history about Snape was, at that point, like 
dealing with an annoying insect.  This wasn't about Snape, in Sirius' 
mind.  It was about Pettigrew.


 If anything, Snape as a teenager was *too* trusting.  I mean
> really, what sort of self-respecting paranoiac would go rushing off 
to
> the Tunnel just because an enemy told him how to get in?  (And it
> wasn't that he was stupid; even Sirius gives him credit for
> cleverness.)

Yes, of course, and why would he trust Sirius, of all people? Which 
is why all us Sirius people *know* there's more to the prank than 
we've been told. ;-)

Marianne