Sirius and PTSD, also Sirius and Extroversion

[Judy]

No: HPFGUIDX 47388

On Sirius and extroversion:

I said:
<<[Sirius] wants action. He likes socializing
and playing jokes. He's not the type who wants
to spend his time sitting by
himself, lost in thought. 
The psychological term for this is
extroversion.>>

And Penny replied:
<<<<I agree with you in general, however, I do want to point out that
the Sirius you describe, if ever he existed for certain, existed 14
yrs ago ..... before Azkaban. I am not sure if it's the comparison
that Hagrid makes between James/Sirius as a pair of "trouble-makers"
and the Twins ......but a fair number of people have the definite
impression that Sirius likes to "play jokes." That's not canon. He
could be a troublemaker but not be keen on practical jokes. The Twins
are practical jokers, but they may not be *exactly* the same kind of
troublemakers that James and Sirius were. I think most people have the
impression that Sirius is more extroverted than introverted, though 
I expect his time in Azkaban could have made him more introspective on
the whole than he might previously have been inclined to be.>>>

It's true that we aren't told exactly what sort of troublemakers James
and Sirius were.  However, "merry prankster" is about the most
positive interpretations of "troublemaker" that I can come up with. If
Sirius and James made trouble and *didn't* mean it as a joke, I'd
expect that James wouldn't have made Headboy and that Rosmerta and
Hagrid wouldn't have laughed when thinking of James' and Sirius'
behavior. So, I read canon as saying that Sirius and James were
pranksters. 

I agree that Sirius' behavior and emotions would have changed as a
result of his long time in Azkaban.  However, the theories of
extroversion that I'm aware of say that extroversion is
"constitutional", that is, inborn or at least established early in
childhood.  So, I'd guess that Sirius would be changed by his
experience in Azkaban, and might no longer enjoy socializing as much,
but that the fundamental process underlying his extroversion (low
central nervous system reactivity) would still be present.  

On Sirius and PTSD [Post Traumatic Stress Disorder]:

I gave three problems with diagnosing Sirius as having PTSD. 

The first problem was that Sirius was still in extreme danger in PoA,
so it was too early for him to develop PTSD. As the name Post
Traumatic Stress Disorder implies, PTSD typically develops *after* the
trauma, not during it.  While people are in crisis mode, they are
emotionally numbed to some extent; the full extent of the trauma
doesn't hit them
until later.  

Several people responded with a theory, of which Monika seems to be
the originator, that Sirius is not in fact traumatized by what
happened to him, but is instead traumatized by what happened to his
friends, James and Lily.  Since the trauma of their deaths happened a
long time ago, he's had plenty of time to develop symptoms of PTSD.  

I think this is possible, although it requires seeing Sirius'
personality as exceptionally altruistic.  If you look at, say, people
who had family members killed by Nazis and were then interred in
concentration camps, their PTSD symptoms typically emerge after (often
long after) they are out of the concentration camps and safe.  Both
the death of their loved ones and their own suffering were part of the
trauma, so they weren't in the post-trauma period until both these
events were over.  So, for the above argument to work, Sirius would
have to be so selfless that his own suffering didn't bother him at
all. This line of argument isn't very useful for trying to show that
Sirius is a nice guy, since it starts by assuming that he is a saint. 


The second problem was that if Sirius had PTSD during PoA, he made an
implausibly quick recovery by GoF.  People don't get over PTSD that
fast (if at all.) 

To this, Penny replied:
<<<We don't see Sirius on a regular basis in GoF, and he certainly has
forewarning of impending contact with Harry to prepare himself to put
up a front of someone who's functioning quite fully. This doesn't mean
that this is actually happening though.>>>

This seems to imply that Sirius' friendly demeanor in GoF is just an
act, and that the "real Sirius" is the knife-wielding maniac of PoA. 
I don't think he'd be able to fool Harry so well, but even if he
could, I doubt Sirius fans really want to go there.  


The biggest problem with seeing Sirius as having PTSD, though, is that
he just doesn't have the symptoms in either book. 

I said: 
<< anxiety symptoms are a hallmark of PTSD, but as far as I can tell,
Sirius doesn't show much anxiety.>>

Heidi responded that Sirius does show anxiety symptoms:
<<<How else would you describe his pleas to Harry to keep him posted
about anything unusual? Or what about his insistance on Harry becoming
as proficient at all the charms and spells he could, to get through
the Tri-Wizard tournament safely? Or his regular owls back and forth
with Dumbledore? Or even his decision to take the incalculatable risk
to go back to Hogsmeade, where less than a year before the whole town
had been on the watch for him, to live in a cave and eat rats, simply
to be near Harry, who he thought to be in danger?>>>

I would say that Sirius is doing these things because Harry is in
actual danger -- Voldemort is trying to kill Harry, after all.   A
rational response to actual danger does not count as a symptom of an
anxiety disorder.  So, these behaviors are all evidence of Sirius'
concern for Harry, and show that he is a responsible godparent and
willing to take great risks for Harry, but they don't show that Sirius
has an anxiety disorder.

JKR would have no trouble showing us if Sirius were anxious.  Sirius
would have a little twitch in his face, or his hands would shake. When
the Death Eaters were mentioned, he would "look paler than usual" or
"a cold bead of sweat" would appear on his forehead.  Or, Harry would
simply "see the anxiety in Sirius' face," just as Sirius is said to
see the anxiety in Harry's face in the "Padfoot Returns" chapter. But,
JKR says none of this.  In PoA, Sirius is grinning at the thought of
killing Peter.  In "Padfoot Returns", he seems almost relaxed: he is
happy to see Harry; he has plenty of appetite (albeit produced by lack
of food), and he's quite able to concentrate.

 
I'm not surprised that people differ in their reading of Sirius.
After all, he is a very sympathetic character in some ways - he's
suffered tremendously, and he takes great risks for Harry.  But, he's
also very unsympathetic in some ways. Even leaving aside the Prank, he
chokes Harry in the Shack, he breaks Ron's leg, he slashes the Fat
Lady for no apparent reason, and he's eagerly hunting down Peter,
planning to fill him in cold blood.   So, people are trying to find a
way to reconcile these disparate aspects of his personality.   I
frankly think that's pointless.  JKR often does wonderful
characterizations, but she just didn't portray Sirius consistently. 
However, I realize that reasonable people can disagree, so I tried to
offer an "olive branch" to those with a different view.  I
acknowledged that we don't see that much of Sirius, so our picture of
him is incomplete.  I even suggested that perhaps dementor exposure
has effects that we don't know about, which might explain his
behavior.  But, that's as far as I'm willing to go.  A diagnosis of
PTSD just doesn't fit him.

-- Judy