[HPforGrownups] Re: Snape and the Potters

[Carol Bainbridge]

No: HPFGUIDX 47487

Jack wrote:
>In GoF, Voldie summons the Deatheaters, and Lucius is there.  He
>certainly must notice that Snape isn't.  Voldie states that of the
>ones that are missing, two are at Hogwarts:  one is coward (Kakarov);
>one is lost forever and must die (Snape).  If Snape was maintaining a
>front for Lucius, I wonder what Lucius is thinking now?

Hard to say, but if the cover story is that he's actually keeping an eye 
out on Dumbledore, Lucius would think that's what he's doing -- keeping an 
eye on what's going on at Hogwart's with Dumbledore and his side.  He could 
even be thinking that it was a good thing that Snape decided to stay 
undercover.

>I wonder if Snape will say he didn't respond when summoned because he
>needed to maintain a front for D'dore.  Voldie was co-occupying
>Quirrel in SS, so that excuse won't fly.

I wonder, though.  Someone earlier mentioned something to the effect that 
Snape could say that he was just testing Quirrel.  All we know is that 
Snape told Quirrell he'd have another talk with him later after he's had 
time to decide where his loyalties lie.  That was ambiguous enough for 
Harry to think that Snape meant Quirrell needed to think about being on 
Voldemort's side.  We don't know what else Snape said or how he said it, so 
it's very possible that Snape was careful with his wording throughout the 
conversations he had with Quirrell.  A bigger problem I see is that 
Quirrellmort knew that Snape saved Harry when Quirrell tried to kill 
him.  I haven't figured out how to get beyond that one yet!

>But Lucius doesn't know
>that, does he?  He just knows that Voldie has condemned him.

But he has to know that Snape saved Harry from Quirrell's curse on the 
broom, right?

conshydot at email.com replied to Jack:
>We always assume that Kakarov is the coward and Snape is lost
>forever, But what if it's the other way around? Snape's mision may be
>to go begging back to Voldy and get himself ingratiated into the
>inner circle. Snape could then insinuate himself as as double agent-
>pretend that he is spying at Hogwarts for Voldy and but really aiding
>D*dore.

I've wondered that myself, but I'm not sure Voldie would take someone back 
just because they came begging.  I think Snape would have to have a better 
story than that and I do think that he very likely could say he had been 
keeping an eye on Dumbledore and the rest of the good crowd to be better 
prepared to destroy them when the time was ripe.  He could even provide 
some morsels of (useless or wrong) information.  Voldemort could certainly 
accept that.  He seems to accept those who can do something for him, 
Pettigrew, for example.  It seems to me that he would be very happy blowing 
that sniveling little rat away, but he knows that he is/was useful.  I can 
imagine he'd do the same with Snape, providing Snape could give at least 
the appearance of doing something useful.

Cassie wrote:
>Here's a wild thought. What if Snape was there? Remember, there were some
>DE's that Voldemort passed.

That's an interesting thought.  But is the timing right?  At what point 
does Snape leave the presence of Dumbledore who tells him he knows what 
must be done?  That's at the very end, right?  When Dumbledore is trying to 
persuade Fudge that Voldemort is indeed back, wouldn't Snape just pipe up 
and say he knows because he's just been at the circle?  Or is he keeping 
his double agent status a secret from Fudge?    What happened to the inner 
circle once Harry takes the portkey back to Hogwarts?  Did they all 
suddenly disperse, making it possible for Snape to get back to Hogwarts in 
time to talk to Fudge?

Cassie again:
>"Snape made a sudden movement, but as Harry looked at him, Snape's eyes flew
>back to fudge." (GoF, ch 36)
>
>"This eyes lingered on Harry for a moment as Harry watched him. His
>expression was difficult to read. He looked as sour and unpleasant as ever.
>Harry continued to watch him, long after Snape had looked away." (GoF, ch 37)
>
>A bunch of people speculated that the latter might indicate Snape had a new
>found respect for Harry.

I wonder about that.  I can't imagine why he'd respect Harry now if he 
didn't before.  He'd gotten the best of Voldemort on more than one 
occasion.  Where would the new respect come from this time?  I wonder if 
this look has something more to do with Fudge and Snape.  What does Fudge 
know about Snape?  What does Snape know about Fudge?  Do we know for a fact 
that Fudge was never a DE or a supporter of Voldemort?  I've wondered about 
this more than once.  There is so much evidence that Fudge wants to protect 
Harry, but does that mean he was never a supporter of Voldemort, even if he 
wasn't in the inner circle of Death Eaters?  Of course, I've wondered that 
about Ludo Bagman as well.  In fact, sometimes I wonder if he's not the 
character that Voldemort refers to as the true supporter at Hogwarts.  But 
then I've considered just about everyone in that role!

>If Dumbledore had told him later on what Harry had
>said I could imagine Snape thinking:
>
>"Great...the little brat lucks out and survives *another* attack by Lord
>Voldemort."

Except that I do think Snape is really on the good side now and even though 
he clearly dislikes Harry, I don't think he'd be disappointed at Harry's 
survival.

>My theory was that it might not be respect, but guilt. He had worked so hard
>to protect Harry at school (in his own way of course..) and here he had to
>stand and watch as he was tortured and almost killed.

On the surface, that does make sense.  But it's the timing that bothers me.



Carol