Thoughts on SHIPS

[Lilac]

No: HPFGUIDX 44925



Jessica:

> I have to weigh in on this discussion of SHIPS and
> their importance to the HP series.


Nicole:
Thank you very much for doing so!  I thought your post
was brilliant and I am sorry to snip any of it as I
add my thoughts.  I sincerely hope that everyone on
the list read your post and, if they did not, I hope
they will go back and read it now.

Me:  

I even saved Jessica's post because it was *that* good!  Even though we differ on some opinions, Jessica, there are some that are exactly the same!   

Jessica:
> There seems to be a climate of dismissiveness toward
> the development of romantic relationships amongst
> the Hogwarts students -- specifically Harry, 
> Hermione, and Ron. The inference, it seems to me, is
> that these types of relationships are trivial to the
> overriding action of the books. I could not disagree
> more.  Indeed, I believe they will prove vital to the
> battle against Voldemort, the development of the 
> plot, and the survival/redemption of many of the 
> series' characters. 

Nicole:

I completely agree with you here.  While I highly
enjoy discussions of character motivation, symbolism,
etc., I have found that there are very few discussions
about romantic relationships and that when there are,
they are differentiated from other posts and often not
taken as seriously.  I think this is very sad as I
think that love is the most important thing in the
world and I would venture to say that it is *the*
central theme in this series.  

Me:

And I'll even venture to say that love will be what ultimately destroys Voldemort, since he embodies the opposite of love and goodness.  

Jessica:
> As much as one can’t consider the romantic pairing
> of James and Lily Potter trivial, I don’t think it’s
> fair for one to consider the pairings of Harry and 
> his contemporaries to be trivial. Don’t get me 
> wrong – I’m not at all interested in the series 
> dissolving into some silly teen Harlequin. In fact, 
> it seems to me that the these pairings will have far
> less to do with drippy romance, than with the 
> significance of two people finding they can 
> contribute something vital and lasting to each 
> other, something that will make them stronger, 
> braver, wiser, and more aware of their potential as 
> an individual. 


Nicole:
My thoughts exactly.  I don't want to see these books
become Harlequin romance novels either but the
presence of loving relationships between the
characters does not doom HP to become a cheesy
bodice-ripper of a series.  <snip>

As far as Ron and Hermione go, they have had a very
contentious relationship but I think that a lot of
this stems from the affection that they feel for each
other but have not yet acknowledged.  Conventional
wisdom tells us that when we care very, very deeply
for someone they are often the person we hurt the
most.  This is because we have so much vested in them
emotionally that the slightest word or glance from
them has a great power to wound us.  When Hermione and
Ron fight, it seems to me that they have the ability
to hurt one another much more than anyone else hurts
them.  Furthermore, the worst sting is when someone
that we truly care about points out one of our flaws
because we want to be something more for that person,
we don't want to be seen as flawed by them.  I believe
this is why Ron becomes so defensive when attacked by
Hermione.  In my opinion, he really wishes for her to
see him as someone special and so anytime she points
one of his flaws out to him it is especially painful. 
It's a constant reminder that, to his mind, he is not
good enough for her.  Is there anything more painful
than believing that we are not good enough for the
person we love?  There is also the issue or Ron's
behavior when Hermione goes to the Yule Ball with
Krum.  From the first time I read that scene, it
seemed blatantly obvious to me that Ron was crazed
with jealousy.  He had admired Krum and openly gawked
at Krum as if he were a god until Krum developed an
interest in Hermione.  Suddenly, Krum became public
enemy #1 and Ron was ripping the head off his Krum
figure.  He had assumed that Hermione would be
available to him and when he realized that she is seen
as an object of attraction by another person, he can't
handle it.  She's *his* Hermione and Krum has a lot of
nerve to think he can muscle in on Ron's territory.
 

Me:

Some very good points that make a lot of sense to me, Nicole.


Nicole:

As for Harry and Ginny, I admit that this was a
pairing that I did not think much about until rather
recently.  Of course I noticed that Ginny had a crush
on him as that's apparent from the books but in
reading through some of the posts on this group and
having some discussion with Lilac, I have realized
that there are several reasons why Ginny would be
perfect for Harry.  For one, there's the obvious
answer.  If Harry were to marry Ginny, he would become
a true member of the Weasley family.  For another,
Ginny is really the only other person in the WW who
has some idea of what Harry has suffered at the hands
of Voldemort.  She too has been tortured by him, which
is something that Ron and Hermione and most other
people in the WW cannot possibly understand and relate
to, at this point.  I think that Harry will find a
kindred spirit in Ginny and that's very important to
him because, as Jessica pointed out, he is very
isolated and seems to feel very alone.  When someone
is the victim of a crime or a terrible tragedy, they
often withdraw into themselves and feel that no one
else understands until they meet someone who has been
through the same experience.  This is why support
groups exist--once someone is shown that there are
others who understand what s/he is going through, s/he
is able to unburden him/herself before people who will
have carried similar burdens.  This shared experience
creates a safe environment and helps foster recovery. 
I think that Ginny and Harry will become a support to
one another and that, through this support system,
they will begin to heal.
 

Me:

Thank-you, Nicole!  I didn't realize that my mindless chatter made sense to someone other than me!

I've read the "Fantastic Posts" page with the discussions on SHIPS, and this is one point that seems to have been left out of the H/G pro-argument:  they both have been in direct contact with Voldemort and lived. Think about it...I'm sure Ginny blames herself for nearly killing several students, and knowing Harry, he'll blame himself for indirectly causing Cedric's death.  Like Nicole said, these two might be able to open up to each other because they have similar (although Harry's had far more worse) experiences.  This is some common ground on which to build a friendship, even if nothing more than friendship develops.  Don't get me wrong, I'd love for something to develop, but friendship is a good start for any relationship. 

And here's some more Ginny speculation... 

1.  What does Ginny hear when the dementors come close to her?  On the train to Hogwarts in POA, after the dementor leaves, she is shaking very badly and wimpering, even after Harry regains consciousness.  On my first reading, I thought it was just because of her reaction to Harry fainting, but I suspect it has something to do with the horrors from her 1st year.  (Also, Neville is affected more than the others, save Harry and Ginny.  Does he hear his parent's screaming in agony from the repeated Cruciatus curse that he might have witnessed as a toddler?)   

2.  Could Ginny have possibly learned to conjure a Patronus because of her reaction to the dementors?  I know, it's very advanced magic, but we don't know what kind of student she is or even how powerful of a witch she is because Harry doesn't know any of this from his PoV.  If Lupin taught her, than I'm sure he would have mentioned something like, "Oh, and Harry...there is another student who is in 2nd year who can conjure a patronus as well, which is pretty remarkable because it's very advanced magic.  Just to let you know..." I speculate that Dumbledore could have given her a private tutorial if she went to him with her concerns, or even if the seemingly omniscient Headmaster came to her and asked her if there is anything troubling her, anything at all...Dumbledore probably wouldn't mention anything to Harry because it's Ginny's business, just like how Neville's parents died is Neville's business, as Harry inadvertantly found out.

3. Have "bits of Voldy" stayed with Ginny as well?  I guess it would be more correct to say "bits of Tom", who Dumbledore says was probably the most brilliant student Hogwarts had ever seen (CoS).  What gifts would stay with a person who was possessed?  Would parselmouth have stayed with her?  Would her powers be augmented in any way?  Was she "possessed", or did the diary cast "imperio" upon her to do Tom's bidding?  I like the ideas that she can speak parseltongue, but we have no proof for this yet (come on, book 5...).  

Just some ideas on what could happen...      



> -Jessica, who is an eternal big mouth 

~Nicole, who thinks Jessica is not a big mouth. 
Instead, she thinks that Jessica is very eloquent and
has started a very thought-provoking discussion.

~Lilac, who says ditto to Nicole.  Be kind to yourself, Jessica!

p.s.  My husband, familiar with some of the acronyms on the list, just asked me what SHIPS stands for, then he answered his own question... "Is it SO, HARRY IS PERFECTLY SEXY?"  



 

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"Tut, tut --- hardly any of you remembered that my favorite color is *lilac*. 

I say so in Year with the Yeti."         --Gilderoy Lockhart, COS



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