The Ginny Weasley Quotient (some SHIP)

[Lilac]

No: HPFGUIDX 45026


Ah, yes....Jessica.

We meet again! <eg>

I’m sure that Pippin has already sent a reply to this post, but I’m feeling a bit feisty about this topic, so I can’t *not* reply...

You said:
I'm not sure Ginny's lack of giggles and blushing
necessarily indicates increased maturity or growing
sophistication in her dealings with Harry. On the
contrary, I would think Ginny's reaction to Harry's
last-minute need for a Yule Ball date to be a just as
troublesome and over-reactive. Granted, she has a
terrible crush on Harry and she wishes Harry would
notice her as something more than "Ron's Little
Sister." I think we've all been there in one way or
another and it's no fun. Little things make you twinge
and feel discouraged. 

Nonetheless, it seems to me than anyone with a
developed sense of reality and maturity and a genuine
concern for Harry *as a unique individual, not a hero*
would have had the sensibilities to take a more
thoughtful and less self-absorbed view of Harry's
dilemma. 

Me:

And this is your line of reasoning because 13/14 year-olds are very thoughtful and not very self-absorbed on the whole, correct?<g> 

Well, I’ll admit, she does seem sorry for herself (see canon below), I’ll give you that. But I don’t see how her reaction is still her hero-worship stage. I would picture hero-worshiping Ginny like she was in COS...barely talking and not standing up for herself.

And Harry has been the epitome of "reality and maturity" <g>. After Harry asked Cho to the ball and found out she was already going with Cedric, here are his thoughts: 

"He had been starting to quite like Cedric– prepared to overlook the fact that he had once beaten him at Quidditch, and was handsome, and popular, and nearly everyone’s favorite champion. Now he suddenly realized that Cedric was in fact a useless pretty boy who didn’t have enough brains to fill and egg cup."(GOF 398) 

Just thought I’d throw that out there...

Jessica:

Perhaps I'm expecting too much from a
thirteen year old experiencing her first crush... 

Me:

Yes, we agree on something!

Jessica:

...but there are gaping holes of logic and sensibility in her
seeming devastation that Harry needs a date to the
Yule Ball and she's all ready taken.

Me:

Let’s take a look at canon, shall we...

*****************************************************************************

"I asked [Cho] to go with me just now," Harry said dully, "and she told me [she’s going with Cedric]."

Ginny had suddenly stopped smiling.

"This is mad," said Ron. "We’re the only ones left who haven’t got anyone – well, except Neville. Hey – guess who he asked? *Hermione*!"

"*What*?" said Harry, completely distracted by this startling new.

"Yeah, I know!" said Ron, some of the color coming back into his face as he started to laugh. "He told me after Potions! Said she’s always been really nice, helping him out with work and stuff – but she told him she was already going with someone. Ha! As if! She just didn’t want to go with Neville...I mean, who would?"

"Don’t!" said Ginny, annoyed. "Don’t laugh – "

Just then, Hermione climbed in through the portrait hole.

"Why weren’t you two at dinner?" she said, coming over to join them.

"Because – oh shut up laughing, you two – because they’ve both just been turned down by girls they asked to the ball!" said Ginny.

That shut Harry and Ron up.

"Thanks a bunch, Ginny," said Ron sourly.

<snip argument about going with someone, etc. and Hermione storms off>

"She’s lying," said Ron flatly, watching her go.

"She’s not," said Ginny quietly.

"Who is it then?" said Ron sharply.

"I’m not telling you, it’s her business," said Ginny.

"Right," said Ron, who looked extremely put out, "this is getting stupid. Ginny, *you* can go with Harry, and I’ll just – "

"I can’t," said Ginny, and she went scarlet too. "I’m going with – with Neville. He asked me when Hermione said no, and I thought ... well ... I’m not going to be able to go otherwise, I’m not in fourth year." She looked extremely miserable. "I think I’ll go have dinner," she said, and she got up and walked off to the portrait hole, her head bowed.

Ron goggled at Harry.

"What’s got into them?" he demanded.

But Harry had just seen Parvati and Lavender come in through the portrait hole. The time had come for drastic action. <asks P and L, etc.>(GOF 399-401)

*****************************************************************************

Is this where you are saying she is overreacting? Looking extremely miserable and walking off to dinner with her head bowed? I argue that this is not what I would consider an overreaction. I’ll grant you that she is bummed that she might have had the chance, slim as it was, to go with Harry at Ron’s suggestion, but she could also be bummed that she is going with *Neville*, whom the boys were laughing at just a minute ago..."[Hermione] wouldn’t want to go with Neville – I mean, who would?" as Ron said earlier. To be the brunt of that joke would make me miserable as well. And she found out the object of Harry’s affections just a few moments ago was the very pretty Ravenclaw Cho. The whole situation isn’t pleasant for her. But, instead of bursting into tears and running up to her dorm room, she feels miserable and leaves with her head bowed. I consider this a natural reaction, not an overreaction. Especially for a thirteen-year-old female who is probably experiencing a bourgeoning of emotions just from going through puberty. But hey – that’s just me! 



Jessica:
Ginny's baselessly assuming that Harry would have
asked her to the ball if she wasn't all ready going
with Neville. I could understand her having a little
disappointment that she were "out of the running," so to speak, if there were even the slimest chance. But
what reason does she have to actually believe Harry
would've even considered her? 

Me:

Do you mean considered her before this scene in the book, when the boys *should have* been asking girls and not procrastinating, or considered her at that moment of Ron’ suggestions? I consider those situations to be very different .



I will point out that we have no reaction whatsoever from Harry after Ron suggests Ginny go with him. We don’t read thoughts like, "Oh, no, *Not Ginny*! She’ll be blushing the entire time!" Or "Yeah, that would work. At least I would go with someone I know." Or anything. So, if we are talking about this scene in particular, then we don’t have any canon supporting whether Harry considered it or not. If we are talking about *before this scene*, then yes, we know that Harry didn’t consider her. But she did accept Neville’s invitation, which shows me even if she was waiting around for Harry to ask her, she decided that she should accept Neville’s invite so she could go to the ball just for the sake of going. A more mature way to be than turning everyone down because she won’t give up on her dream date Harry and end up not going at all so she could cry all night on her bed. 

We do, however, have Ron’s reaction of not understanding what is bothering Hermione and Ginny. Poor clueless Ron. 

Jessica:

He doesn't really have any kind of friendship with
her, outside of the fact that she's Ron's sister. He
has consistently and from their first meeting either
ignored, been embarrassed by, or shrugged off all of
the glaring indications that she fancies him.

Me:

I guess the way I’ve read how he reacts to her in CoS is that he "politely ignores" her blushing and awkwardness, like her elbow in the butter dish. In the rest of the books, he’s always been pleasant to her, but he doesn’t give any indication back that he is interested. I still stand by my theory that Fred and George sent Harry the embarrassing valentine and not Ginny.

Jessica:

She doesn't even seem to move in the same orbit with
Harry. Sure, she's a year younger than Harry, so he'sless likely to be around her, but we see more of the
Creevey brothers than we do of her. 

She's essentially a non-entity in Harry's life. How is
it, then, that anyone with the tiniest shred of logic
would actually assume that the likelihood of Harry
asking her were great enough that she should get so
obviously bent out of shape and go hide in her room?

Me:

Um...canon says she went down to dinner...You might be thinking of Hermione getting very obviously bent out of shape and storming off to her room after her confrontation with Ron about not noticing her (I snipped that part above but it’s on page 400 in GOF).



Jessica:

I don't think it's too much to expect of Ginny that,
despite her feelings for Harry, she be able to
acknowledge the reality of the situation and react
like a reasonable human being.

Me: 

Like Hermione did, right?<g> 

Jessica:
Instead, she's thrown into a misery so great that she
immediately loses the ability to carry on a
conversation with Ron and Harry or even be in Harry
presence. 



Me:

I guess we interpret that scene differently, because I don’t see her, as you melodramatically put it, in a "thrown into a misery so great..." She’s miserable, probably for many reasons like I stated above, and she leaves after she’s done talking about it. I wouldn’t say she lost the ability to converse. 

Jessica:

I just think her emotional intensity is
neither reasonable nor mature given her lack of
evidence that he would consider asking her.And her reaction strikes me as just as childish as the
giggling and blushing.

The problem with Ginny, in my mind, is that she's
guilty of the behavior so many exhibit around Harry
and that he abhors. She doesn't know Harry. Her
interest in Harry is not for the qualities that
*really* make him Harry Potter, but for the mythic,
heroic persona that the WW has thrust upon him. To
her, he's an idea, not an actual person. Sure she's
only 13, but Ron and Hermione, at 11, knew of Harry's
reputation and still managed to forge layered, complex
relationships with him as an individual. They weren't
so terribly blinded by his celebrity that they
couldn't see past it to the real person.


Me:
I’ll agree with the point that plot-wise Ginny’s role in COS was the stereotypical female fan (Colin being the male), but I don’t see evidence of that now in GOF. I think she knows him as more than Harry the Hero. She know’s he’s also Ron’s best friend, Hermione’s friend, her mom’s adopted son, a boy who has a hard time screwing up the courage to ask out girls and a boy who was rejected. These are things she can see from just being in Harry’s circle of influence. 



As for Ron and Hermione’s friendship, they didn’t *like him* like him, in a romantic way. They had a bit of celebrity shock when first meeting him, but got to know him as a friend soon thereafter. When I *liked* someone at that age, I was nervous around them, I said and did stupid things, and I blushed a lot. That sort of stuff got in the way of getting to know the person as a friend first. I would say her *liking* him is what has held Ginny back in getting to know Harry as a friend, more than the celebrity status/hero worship has. That is what I want to see...Ginny grow all the way out of her crush and just get to know Harry as a friend. 



Jessica:

If Ginny *did* have any genuine concern for Harry, she
would she would have acknowledged, based on a
three-dimentional, fleshed out, unselfish
understanding of Harry, the unlikelihood of Harry
asking her to the ball. She would be surely be a bit
disappointed, but be able to put a realistic spin on
the situation. In being so wrapped up in the
superficiality of Harry's public image, she negates
his voice, his very existence as an individual. She either ignores or dismisses Harry's uncomfortable and
uninterested pattern of behavior toward her because
she wrapped up in this dream vision of him as her
knight in shining armor. She disrespects his need to
be understood, beyond The Boy Who Lived hysteria, as a
*living boy*.


Me: 

By what you are saying here, I think the only person perfect for Harry is McGonagall.<g>

I still don’t see strong evidence that she is still in hero-worship mode, because of how little she is in the books after COS, and the few scenes she is in shows she has matured somewhat in her reactions to Harry. 

Jessica:
I don't assume that any of these behaviors are
intentional on Ginny's part. She's not a bad kid. I
don't think she has the self-awareness to understand
to shallowness of her emotions for Harry. In other
words, if she's *ever* going to be the girl for Harry,
she's got a lot of growing to do.

Me:

Yes, Ginny does have some growing up to do, as do the Trio. I think she has started her ascent to maturity in GOF, and I truly hope we get to actually read about how she is maturing emotionally so that we don’t have to speculate whether she’s still in hero-worship-mode or not.

As always, Jessica, you put forth a good argument. I hope what I said made sense to someone out there. I was never very good at debate; drama was more my cup of tea. I’m doing this more for my sake than trying to convince Jessica or anyone else out there of my side because I have a need to defend Ginny...I don’t know why, I just do.

Lilac (who respects Jessica and agrees with her on the "Wrinkle in Time" series, but will agree-to-disagree with her on this issue :-)

 

-Jessica 



 

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"Tut, tut --- hardly any of you remembered that my favorite color is *lilac*. 

I say so in Year with the Yeti."         --Gilderoy Lockhart, COS



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