[HPforGrownups] Snape, the TT and Dumbledore's 'amusement' Re: The "face-value" theory of PoA

[GulPlum]

No: HPFGUIDX 45395

At 09:50 15/10/02 -0400, Eloise wrote:

>Just to be clear, although I'm specifically answering Richard's post, I'm
>also answering other assumptions that are made about this scene and apologise
>in advance if I appear to attribute ideas to Richard which are not his.

<snip>

Eloise, you're quite safe (this time). :-) Whilst I've not previously 
expressed some of the arguments you presented, it all fits in with and 
represents my opinions exactly.

Or, to paraphrase something you said and to use a phrase I had meant to use 
earlier in this conversation, it's not Snape himself who causes 
Dumbledore's amusement, but the situation in general. Specifically with 
reference to the "Sadist!Dumbledore" accusation, I would note that the 
Infirmary scene is entirely of Snape's making. Had Dumbledore engineered 
it, he *would* have been a sadist, if only because he forces one of his 
senior members of staff to make a fool of himself in front of his least 
favourite pupils. As it happens, he deals with a ranting Snape calmly and 
rationally, even going as far as to tell him how Sirius's escape was 
engineered. Talking of which...

>No. I think it was only safe for Dumbledore to say that if he knew both that
>Snape *would* put two and two together and realise that Dumbledore had
>authorised it but also that his loyalty would outweigh his fury. In fact
>Dumbledore needed to prevent Snape from putting two and two together 
>without understanding his own involvement. Snape *could* have thought of 
>the Time Turner possibility on his own, so Dumbledore needed to pre-empt this.

OK, I'm prepared to go half way and accept the possibility that Snape knew 
about the Time-Turner (canon isn't definitive on the subject, so it is all 
about possibility and plausibility rather than established fact) if you're 
willing to accept the possibility that he didn't. :-) As Marina has said, 
it's not really important to PRESSURE COOKER either way. I only raised this 
as an issue because Marina went to some lengths to explain why it was 
important to her that Snape knew.

As you pointed out, Dumbledore revels in his cleverness. He also places a 
large importance on truthfulness, so whichever way one reads Snape's 
factual knowledge, the central element here is that Dumbledore is telling 
him how the deed was done. Whether or not Snape already knew Hermione had 
the T-T, he could easily find out (as, indeed, could Fudge, each in his own 
way), so as has been suggested, Dumbledore is basically covering all his 
bases (urgh! I just used an American sporting metaphor!) :-)  so should 
Snape and/or Fudge make the necessary connections, he's saying very 
strongly that he knew about it and approved of the T-T's use; if Snape 
and/or Fudge should ever want to blame the kids, they'd have to blame him too.

>Hermione must be a very well-known student, particularly so since most of 
>the teachers teach her! It must have been slightly evident that she was 
>taking more than one class at once. Given the nature of the Time Turner 
>and the regulations governing its use, I would be highly surprised if the 
>entire teaching staff *didn't* know about it, just as Prof Flitwick 
>immediately knew the special circumstances surrounding Harry receiving a 
>broomstick in his first year.

Harry's broomstick was designed to be used in public and was a specific 
suspension of standard Hogwarts rules. It was necessary that all staff knew 
about it (or even were involved in the decision to give it to him) in order 
to stave off any suspicion of favouritism, as its only use was for the 
glory of one House's Qudditch team rather than for a particular pupil's 
special educational needs (although I'm sure that the way McGonagall sold 
the teachers on the idea of giving Harry the broom was because he was 
clearly a gifted flyer and deserved every chance to use quality euipment).

Hermione's Time-Turner was meant to be used in secret and the only people 
who knew about it were Dumbledore (Headmaster) and McGonagall (Hermione's 
Head of House). A while back, I suggested in another discussion that it 
would have been dramatically better for Dumbledore to have been the only 
one to know about it (it would have made more sense of his insistence on 
secrecy when the duplicate Harry & Hermione are sent off). However, the 
only person who knows every detail of Hermione's timetable would be her 
Head of House and thus it makes sense for McGonagall to know. Having 
thought about it, it would have been implausible for her not to.

As for the other teachers, I'm not so sure. They're all very busy and Snape 
in particular also has his own House to worry about - he doesn't have time 
to bother about the details of Hermione's timetable. All he'd care about is 
that she turn up for Potions on time.

--
GulPlum AKA Richard, now eyeing that PRESSURE COOKER with some added 
interest. :-)