[HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts Student Population

[GulPlum]

No: HPFGUIDX 45443

At 15:34 16/10/02 +0000, Steve wrote:

<snip>

>Clearly, there are other dorm *rooms* in this dormitory.

Point of British English usage (as it happens, the American definition 
appears to be  broader) : a "dormitory" (or "dorm", which is the word I'll 
use to save typing) without qualification is a single room with (usually) 
several beds which serves as a communal sleeping area. Strictly speaking, 
though, it is little more than a synonym for "bedroom". Derivatives, such 
as "dorm wing", "dorm floor" or even "dorm buildings" are collections of 
dormitories or appropriate size.

JKR's use of the word throughout the books consistently fits in with 
standard British usage (any other usage would indeed sound strange). 
"Harry's dorm" is described in each book as a circular room at the top of 
Gryffindor Tower. It has a single door and contains five beds. 
"Dormitories" are referred to fairly frequently as the collection of girls' 
and boy's bedrooms respectively, which again fits in with standard usage. 
The room in which Harry sleeps is also further referred to as "his" dorm. 
JKR never refers to the whole of Gryffindor Tower or its top floors as a 
"dormitory" (singular).

>Percy has his own dorm room. Fred, George, and Lee Jordan have a separate 
>room. Colin Creevey and the others in his year have their own rooms. So
>there is no question that there are other Dorm rooms in the Griffindor
>Hall/Tower dormitory.

Quite. Every year has its own dorm. It's even possible that senior year 
pupils have individual dorms (they did in my boarding school).

Furthermore, it is not impossible that some years' students have more than 
one dorm, but as we've never been to any dorm other than Harry's, it's not 
possible to say. On that topic, I just noticed something: In CoS, when 
Percy encounters PJP'd Harry & Ron (aka Crabbe & Goyle), he says: "Well, 
get off to  your dormitories" (Note plural usage!). Now then, does this 
indicate that Crabbe & Goyle sleep in separate dorms, or that Percy simply 
doesn't know and is covering all eventualities?

Incidentally, the Hospital Wing (to which, incidentally, I constantly refer 
non-canonically in another thread as the "Infirmary" from personal habit) 
has its own "dormitory".

>The question then becomes are there other rooms for Harry year?
>Considering that the story is told from Harry's limited perspective
>and that some details have to be left out to keep the books from
>reaching encyclopedia length. I don't think we can say there are not.
>True, we can't say with absolute certainly that there are either.

CoS (p. 67, UK ed): "They hurried up it,  right to the top, and at last 
reached the door of their old dormitory, which now had a sign on it saying 
SECOND YEARS."

It doesn't say "second years room 1" or "Finnigan, Longbottom, Potter, 
Weasley, Thomas". It simply says "second years". If there was another dorm 
for the hypothetical remaining second years, what does the sign on *their* 
room say, and how did these hypothetical pupils know that "second years" 
written on Harry & Co's door didn't refer to them? Or, as it's the top room 
in the tower, how come Harry & Co didn't stop at the the hypothetical other 
second years' dorm and go there, thinking "they've put us in a different 
dorm to the one we had last year".

After all, there was no indication that they would necessarily keep the 
room they had the previous year (as it happens, from my own experience and 
from what I've heard happens at other boarding schools, pupils are 
generally shuffled around, not keeping the same dorm from year to year).

>We know there are more boys in Colin Creevey's year but have any of them 
>been names? Occassionally, you will hear about Colin and his friends, but 
>those friends are never identified. Unless I've forgotten a lot of 
>details, the story seems to imply that Colin is the only boy in his year. 
>But that doesn't seem logical.

All it implies is that Colin is the only boy in his year who shows an 
interest in Harry, and therefore is the only one Harry notices. (It's 
normal not to pay attention to kids in classes junior to one's own.)

>Some people will point to the 20 brooms, 20 cauldrons, and 20 ear
>muffs to confirm the number of students, but, as I've stated before, I
>find that number very suspect. Things seem to be '20' a little to
>often. I think this is a general number that JKR latches on to as
>being not too big, not too small, just right when describing a group
>of 'things'. There are 20 cauldrons in the potions lab, but each
>student has their own cauldron as well. And what happens with classes
>that are larger than 20? Personally, I can't take the use of the
>number '20' as representing an exact value. But that's just me.

Hmmm... it's a pretty exact number, and it's consistent. If nothing else, 
JKR is pretty consistent about most of the details which immediately 
surround Harry and there is no reason to distrust the recurring 20 pieces 
of equipment for Harry's shared classes, when every other surface-reading 
detail points to 20 pupils. Unless you have some canon example on which to 
base your disbelief?

As for what happens if there are more than 20 pupils, I would point out 
that the "20 objects" examples you quoted are all *portable*. *Easily* 
portable. There is absolutely no reason to suspect that the teachers do not 
prepare for their lessons and, knowing how many pupils they are going to 
teach, supply appropriate quantities of required materials or equipment. 
And that's even ignoring the fact that these people can do *magic*.

>So while I lean in the direction of another dorm room for Harry's
>year, I have to acknowledge that it's not clearly stated as so. By the
>same token, it's not clearly stated as not being so.

I see the "second years" label as quite conclusive, apart from all the 
other implied information.

>We are left with our opinions on the matter.

And more than a few facts which you seem to have forgotten when forming 
yours. :-)

--
GulPlum AKA Richard, who's always thought that facts are the best basis for 
informed opinions. :-)